My previous article on telengana had evoked a mixed response from lot of people. I am compiling all my responses in this post.
Lakshman’s counter article:
He has provided some details about social composition of andhra. But he made a self goal in his article. Because, his listing of Niyogi Brahmins itself, supports my point that telengana was a separate cultural region. Have a look at his statement.
We have marriage alliances with all Niyogi jaatis of the state like Golkonda Vyaapaarulu, Telaganya Niyogi, KaranaKamma Niyogi, Velanati Niyogi, Pakanati Niyogi, Dravida Niyogi etc.
There is a separate caste called Telangana Niyogi, which means, those Niyogi community who hails from Telengana Region. This itself is a proof for telengana.
Many other points raised by him are important but requires detailed analysis. If time permits, will post my detailed response in future.
Response to @Nyaya:
Commenter @nyaya was vigorously opposing my article, based on his “United Andhra” concept. He was dragging so many issues like language, urduisation, conversion, mini-pakistan, and many other issues. Let me deal with those issues here.
Telengana – a separate dhesam from mahabharatha times:
I gave the following links on mahabharatha that refer telengana in different names. In Bhisma Parva, the dhesams of bharatha varsha is listed down. In that, the talavahanas were mentioned as people living b/w andhra and kalinga.
There is only one speculative refernece to Telingas in the epic Mahabharata. During the southern millitary campaign of the Pandava general Sahadeva he is mentioned as defeating a tribe called Talavanas, between Andhras and Kalingas. This reference is belived to be of the Telingas.
The main contention of @nyaya is that how can we take talavahanas as Telinga, as the name is NOT used.
My point is that the location of Talavahanas match the Telengana region as existing today. Look at the map below.
Uttara Andhra is Kalinga Dhesam:
@nyaya doesnt accept that uttara andhra is kalinga. In turn he says that Orissa is the kalinga dhesam. He did not give any logical reason NOR any substantiation.
Orissa was originally the Odra dhesa, and is self evident from the website of Orissa government. Pls refer the below links.
I am reproducing the Quote from the above links.
In the Mahabharata the Odras are mentioned along with the Paundras, Utkals, Mekalas, Kalingas and Andhras, while according to Manu the Odras are associated with the Paundrakas, Dravidas, Kambojas, Yavanas, Sakas, Paradas, Pallhavas, Chinas, Kiratas and Khasas.
So it is very clear that kalinga dhesa is different from Odra Dhesa from above. Also, why should Kalinga dhesa be named “Orissa”?
In our areas, there is a separate caste called “Oddars”. The very name itself denotes their ethnic roots.
The current linguistic state was created by Britishers in 1936. Why should we take this colonial creation of orissa as legimate?
The reality is that the southern part of orissa and northern part of andhra (called Uttara andhra), and few border areas of chatisgarh state constitute kalinga dhesam. The Northern Orissa is the actual Odra Dhesam.
If @nyaya doesnt agree this, he should substantiate with appropriate logical reasoning or facts. Blunt denial is not a right way.
Culture vs Kulachar
My contention is that the term “culture” comes from our indic root “Kulachar” (as of now, i could not find any material to substantiate. Willing to change if proved wrong ).
Kulachar means the strict life code of a particular “Kulam” (or Jathi). The classical meaning of the term “culture” also more or less meant the same. However, the usage became changed in later days, where culture was used to denote all type of fancy things.
The Urban Indians, educated in western system, sees our culture as some thing fancy and fashion, and see it in a cinematic way. For them, culture is about delicious foods, colourful dress, joyous festival, and all other aspects of “Loukika Life”.
Whereas in traditional bharath, KulaChara means the jathi restriction, dos and donts. So every jathi had their own “Acharam” to follow, according to the area they live in and the occupation they do.
For eg, a brahmin, who has to do vedic rites, has to maintain highest acharams.. whereas a farmer has some relaxation. A leather working community, may not be able follow the “acharam” of other communities, but have their own set of acharams.
This is what our original value system was.
This extreme difference of perception of culture, has led to distorted understanding of our history and society.
@nyaya and @surya, do not accept my contention and in turn say “Culture” means “Samskriti”. Whereas my stand is that Samskrit means Refined, and NOT cultured. It is the Kulachara that can be equated to culture.
Is Language More Important Than culture?
@nyaya says Language is a medium where people understand their culture and hence it is more important.
Whereas my stance is that our “Kulachara” is based on what people follow in their life and NOT based on reading of any textbook. Language is used by different jathis of our society for mere communication, and NOT for any intellectual work. Since every jathi occupation was hereditary, people learn their occupation by practice and NOT from classrooms (as it happens today). Hence importance of language was secondary.
Language was needed to impart “Neethi” and NOT “acharam”. For eg, my grandfather was taught about “Neethi” in schools, while he acquired achara from family tradition.
The reason why @nyaya feels language is important is because of his westernised perception of Fanciful “Culture”. This is the problem with most urban indians, who are stripped of their “Kula Acharams” by macaulay education.
Does small states means Mini-Pakistan??
Muslim Population in Current United Andhra Pradesh = 9.2 % (88.88% Hindu )
Muslim population in Separate Telengana = 12.4 % (84% Hindu ).
There is not much change in Demography due to creation of Telengana.
However, the power of muslims will be drastically reduced in telengana state because of the native telengana people will regain their dominance and ownership of polity, economy and land. To understand how this will happen, we need to understand the relation b/w social network of people and their geographical coverage.
In traditional bharathiya society, the matrimonial alliance was done based on geography and Kulam. So people settling in different dhesams marry only within the geographical boundaries and among their jathi. Even 20 years before, people will not give brides across rivers, for variety of reasons. Even today, those who work in IT sector still chooses bride/groom only from their native areas.
Considering this angle, the social network thru matrimonial relations are confined within the cultural regions (andhra, seema, telengana and kalinga). In United Andhra state, none of these four different social groups would be able to dominate the polity or economy. There will be a stalemate. The muslim and christians will derive their power ONLY in such stalemate, where by shifting their small vote bloc to political parties, they derive dis-proportional leverage.
Whereas, if we divide the state in to four, each region will be dominated by their own native people, and will be able to assert their historical ownership and rights. The power & influence of muslims and christians will be reduced against the collective cultural consolidation of native people.
Will telengana lead to Christian Domination?
The population of Christians in telengana is very negligible. (again another proof on how christianity wont work in traditional society). Although officially christians in andhra are said to be 1.5%, in reality they may be around 10-18%, due to large scale conversions in past 10 years.
@nyaya is saying christians will get more powerful if we divide large state in to smaller ones. But in reality, it is in the United Andhra pradesh, the christian conversion was at highest. He doesnt answer this point, which was raised by @vyasa too.
The issue was NOT about bigger or smaller states. The issue was about centralisation of power. In current United AP, all the control was wrested with Hyderabad, and all the four cultural regions, were powerless, and every decision was taken at the capital. So the christians who were able to capture the power thru YSR (& Congress ) were able to acquire unlimited power and destroy all four regions.
Whereas if we had smaller states, even if christians capture one region, the other three regions will be spared.
The main anti-dote to christian assault is decentralisation of power. My stance is that even in separate telengana, the power should be decentralised based on our ancient native administrative systems.
Come out of Christian and Muslim Phobias:
Most of the arguments by @nyaya is based on fear psychosis of “Christian & Muslim Domination”. His argument goes like this – “If we do this, muslims will get powerful. If we do that, christians will get powerful”. This is nothing but Phobia out of imagination of fear (the fear may be real or apparent). We cannot fight a war, if we shiver just by thought of it.
The Urban Indians are plagued by this Abrahamo-Phobias, because they are struggling with an identity crisis. Most urban hindus are atomised individuals, working in some corporate companies. They dont have any ownership of the resources in urban centers, NOR do they have any collective conscience. Also they are totally dis-connected from the traditional society of bharath. In such situation, their phobias are understandable.
Our thinking and planning should be based on our own strengths and weaknesses. If we are always obsessed with what enemy is doing, our defeat would be certain. While we should be aware of enemy’s strengths & moves, our actions and strategy should be based on our own capabilities.
My strategy is that by splitting Andhra pradhesh in to 4 regions, we would be saving majority of areas by isolating influence of christians to particular region. Even in that particular region, the local consolidation of native hindu population (based on culture) will be an effective checkmate. (For eg, in goa, eventhough christians are majority, they could not fully dominate).
Instead of whining out of phobias, we have to play our own game, and wage our own battle. Fearing about losses are cowardly.
Secularism will die a natural death in Cultural States:
Another important point to note is that secularism will become obsolete and meaningless in telengana (or in any cultural states). Because the secular & liberal morons will not have any place in cultural regions. So far, these people were able to control their discourse, through the centralised state machinery, by enacting laws against our society, and also by using the centralised police force. They would not be able to do that any more. Secularism always had effect ONLY in metros where the power was concentrated and among uprooted urban populations.
I have consolidated all my responses in this article. Would like to know the responses of the readers.