Update:
1. As per media reports, the government has said, the wealth would remain with temple and go will not interfere.
2. Another article in IE, stressing that treasure should belong to lord.
3. Excellent Article in IE by archeologist Nagasamy.. He says, the wealth belongs to Padmanabha samy and NOT to royal family nor temple.
4. Another Article in IE by Archeologists Nagasamy, who says that all wealth are accounted.. so far, 30 crore manuscript leafs detailing donors..
—————————–
The recent discovery of padmanabha temple treasure where the golds and other ornaments found in secret chambers underground, is estimated to be around 1 lakh crore. This temple belongs to the royal family of the travancore state, which is one of the small princely states of india.
How much would the Britishers had looted india?
As of independance, there were more than 500 princely states in india, and major kingdoms like mysore, jaipure etc. The jewels found in the padmanabha temple should have been hidden there by the royal family of travancore to hide from britishers. This to my estimate is after paying all the tributes to the britishers.
When such a small princely states had so much of wealth, how much would the british had looted from all the other princely states of india? Suppose, we assume that on an average, 1/10th of this treasure (10,000 crore) be possessed by 500 small princely states. It comes around 500 x 10,000 crore = 50,00,000 crore. and this is as per current market value. But the value of antiques is unlimited. The temple jewels fall under the category of antiques, and hence the values is far far higher.
The extent of loot, during 1857 war is not included here. During 1857, so many rajyams were destroyed by britishers, and the treasury taken over. The estimate of that loot is beyond my comprehension.
Some pertinent questions here:
- The temple is under the control of Travancore Royal Family. So naturally, the treasure found in that temple belongs to them. If the government forcefully acquires these treasures, then what is the difference b/w british loot and the present government loot.
- Who is that Sunderrajan, who filed a petition before supreme court? He has requested for a government take over, which itself is malicious. What are his backgrounds?
- The petitioner had requested that the government should take over the temple the government themselves because the temple management is not proper. It is ridiculous and irony. Because, both the government and the judiciary is ridden with full of corruption. By Historical accounts, we had always found that native indian kings had governed their region more efficiently than any of the colonial indian government. Can we say, the government should handover the administration back to these erstwhile kings, because they are ridden with corruption?
- This temple is a perfect example to judge who the rightful owner for a temple is. Sri Padmanabha swamy temple belongs to royal family, and it is they who has been maintaining this rajya temple for generations. It is they who has to decide whom to allow and whom NOT allow inside the temple. Temple is NOT a public property. The public can worship there, but cannot claim any rights over it. Temple is NOT like a church. While a church is a place of gathering for worship, a temple is a place where the god himself resides. So the sanctity of the temple has to be maintained. The government nor the court dont have any business to meddle in the affairs.
- In eastern cultures, the king has been the protector of dharma. They had always governed our country, far far better than rest of the world. Unusual in western countries, the king is subservient to the presiding deity, as we find in the padmanaba temple case. The travancore king calls themselves as padmanaba daasa. When they commit wrong, the presiding deity will restore dharma. So they are not absolute monarch, NOR the dictators we usually find in the west. This is true for most indian kings. We can always find such rajya temples in all dhesams. The Hindu intellectuals should understand that there is no dharma, without a king.
- Unlike the modern westernised urban ghettos (also called as cities, metros etc) the temple is centre of our bharatheeya nagaras, around which the nagara is designed and built. I dont know the old architecture of the city of tiruvananthapuram. If any one has details, please share in the comment section. The whole city is administered and regulated by the royal family before independance and tiruvananthapuram seemed to be a planned one. The present colonial indian government had taken over the control from them during independance, and left the city to degrade itself. This is how the our culture and our religion had declined, which the hindu intellectuals are refusing to understand.
- The temple jewels should rightfully belong to the royal family, and they should be allowed to raise a security force to maintain it and use it as per dharma. The effort to take over temple by government has to be resisted strongly.
Already janatha party president Subramanya swamy and Jayalalitha o f ADMK had publicly accused Sonia Gandhi of stealing antiques in india. It seems, the present incident is a conspiracy to steal the assets of padmanaba perumal. The bagwan has to deliver the justice here.
In my opinion,the wealth belongs to royal family .If it goes to government god knows what will happen to the treasure. See,how this wealth have been preserved by the royal family..Let them rule atleast this treasure .
thanks thomas.. the wealth belongs to GOD padmanabaswamy.. even the royal family is just a gaurdian, and cannot use it to their wishes..
Dear Thomas
now day government mean chor family. It should be preserve by the royal family or any court
Excellent take
The treasure belongs to the royal family, but we should not forget that the royal family got all these wealth from common people as tax and gifts. What use would it give to anyone by locking up the treasure again for infinite years. We should respect the antique value of the treasure but also understand the treasure rightly belongs to all of us. I feel a corrupt free govt should take over this and make it beneficial for all of us wisely.
Agreed Bravo, but the wealth should be distributed only to Hindus, coz its been found in a temple. most of these items were “dakshina” to the temple.
Mr. Ravishankar, as Bravo said….. these were tax and gifts paid by common people… at that time the kings did’nt feel that they should collect tax from HINDUS ONLY……. what a man you are……………. shame on you….. when wealth is seen you dont want any other…..
the royal family did not get these out of free.. they governed the kingdom, protected it from enemies, established peace, and enabled a thriving commerce.. the taxes are result of their efficient governance, and hence belongs to them..
the concept of public wealth is a socialist and communist one, where they loot landlords and give it to poors.. that cannot be applied to india, because, indian kings are NOT feudal, NOR landlords.. they are kings, bound by dharma..
Have you read this article? it tell us about the ways in which the people were taxed by the TRavcore dynasty
http://news.in.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=5277696&page=3
@sarathi
I did a google search on ‘breast tax kerala charithram sankunni menon’ . not a SINGLE response attributes the travancore kings to this act. Would you pls enlighten where in Keral Charitram the padmanabhaswamy temple wealth is linked to ‘breast tax’. All the mention of this article is appearing in either English language media (mostly marxists/leftists) or blogs (rabidly leftist). This is not to say it is not there. I cannot find it. Can we have some rigorous checks before posting baseless allegations?
In any case, one should bow before the unselfish and god fearing Rajas of Travancore. They have diligently preserved the tresures, so that future generations could use them judiciously. We need a corrupt free society and noble visionaries to even comment on the future of the immense treasure.
exactly.. thanks for your comment..
Bharat should now call upon Sri Krishna himself to redeem the land her spiritual treasures.
@jaya
Yes.. you are right.. Sri Krishna himself has to redeem and protect his land and treasure..
I disagree. Suppose Bhagawan krishna comes again (avataar) and says ” I am here to do my duty as I promised” – have you done yours? Do we have an answer ? Can we , hand on our hearts, say we have done our bit to stop the daily rape of our motherland? Lets not wait for him to manifest – lets do our bit as best as we can.
Senthil – You raise some very important points.
Firstly, the Indian ruling class, ruling by the norms of Bhararttantra never looted. This amount of wealth, left untouched for nearly 150 years, is a amtter of great self-restraint. How many rulers, poor, rich, or anyone would have left this treasure untouched for 150 years.
These kings remain so dear in public memory that at least half of India calls itself a raja – take your name. You are a raja. Take my my name. I am kumar – a prince.
These temples belongs to all those who are a party to its existence. The creators, those who have maintained it, and those who believe in it. Above all, to those who have NOT touched this treasure for 150 years.
Thanks Anurag.. this episode leads to so many questions.. when most states today are struggling with enormous debts, how it is possible for indian kings to accumulate so much wealth? what is that, which enabled their kingdom to generate this wealth?
We need a fresh look in to these aspects, as today, educated people have negative connotation towards our erstwhile kings..
The answer is simple, Senthil.
भारत-तंत्र Bharat-tantra, is seen
Indian kings did not leave behind, monuments, palaces, dazzling cities. Indians kings could not tax their people to poverty. Indians owned gold – and could walk away from bad administrations. Lands belonged to the people, could not be bought or sold. So, people just walked away from bad kings. They could leave one village and go to another village and demand a share of land.
Gautama Buddha was the best and most recent example of Bharattantra – and his idea was non-attachment must be seen in this light. And not in some vague, empty idea.
It was a solid, political and practical point.
Anurag,
One more point.. the concept of indian nagaras as compared to the concept of western cities.. can we take tiruvananthapuram as a case study? the tiruvananthapuram, as it existed during travancore kings, and as it exists now?
The myth of present urbanisation has to be dispelled, and the habit of equating western cities with indian nagaras has to be stopped..
Dear ,
A very well written article, people like us who underestimate our culture and origin should know that we had the most planned civilization , the most rich heritage and many things to be proud of.
Our inclination towards westernization have caused misery and chaos , in the name of freedom and democracy, we have been degrading our values and Morales. You are ashamed of culture which our forefathers were proud of, We fail to understand that Sanatama Dharma is not just a religion but a way of life. Our Kings have worked hard over years protecting the integrity and hormony between us. Its time to give some respect. Time to adore our tradition which is considered to be the most scientific and flexible.
Very well said Mani, people are forgetting our culture and getting detached to their roots. About the kings imposing taxes on breast feeding, the thing I don’t understand is how can they accumulate so much gold by taxing people for breast feeding and having a mustache. Remember most of the trade then was by barter system and gold was only used for kings and their subordinates for trade (bulk trade). Are you saying that poor people paid the kings gold chains and necklaces as tax to breast feed??!! Our kings have lived their entire lives for their subjects, they could have never tortured their people like that. Also let me tell you how good our kings were, during slack season our kings lowered the amount of tax on farmers as the produce used to be less in such seasons. Also land was no ones property then, the kings use to govern the land and allot them to their subjects. Now let me tell you some interesting facts, do you know why our female population is going down?? because when the britishers came to India they saw that land was no ones property and they wanted to collect tax from the farmers and other peasants as the kings did not want them to govern their kingdoms. However the problem britishers faced was that if land has no owner how can they get paid taxes. bristishers couldn’t do agriculture as they didn’t know how to, so the only way to get revenue was from taxes, so they allotted land to farmers, however unlike the kings they made the farmers owners of the lands (males). So indirectly for someone to have property they must have a male in their family, THIS LEAD TO FEMALE INFANTICIDE, THIS MADE THE POOR INDIANS TO KILL THEIR FEMALE CHILDREN, THIS LEAD TO DOWRY SYSTEM. A land where women are respected so much would not kill their female children. The britishers gave us India as a whole, however they raped our culture and our values and the problem is that most of the Indians aren’t even aware of these facts. Also they started recruiting male Indians in their army and paid them good salary which lead to female infanticide all the more.
It brings tears to my eyes to say this, but our country will not be what it was 100 years down the line.
@kodi nadar..
You make a valid point here.. before britishers, land was commune property, governed by king.. the individual property rights were first introduced by britishers, based on their european social system.. Its a mirror of landlordism…
And regarding female infanticide, pls refer the below URL.. the rockfeller foundation (including US) and the indian state is the main culprit for female infanticide.. Pls read the below URL
http://t.co/0JI95s3
The travancore kings safeguarded the treasures which were kept aside to use during famines .They never used it for their own extravagant purposes like many other Indian kings did as it was meant for the State.The State now should now use it diligently for uplifting the society.
The real owner this treasure is only common man n hence it should be acquired by govt. Actually this property is looted from common peaople(in d form of Dakshina) by brahmins of the temple in d name of god n religion. In past n in present too temples were INDIAN SWISS BANK OF BLACK MONEY n nobody could think to acquire it because of fear of god spread by brahmins(priest)except muslim invaders. So in my honest opinion govt should acquire it in d interest of citizen n use it for d welfare public hospitals, schools, infrastructure, defense, orphans n for various schemes for poor.
Mr.Sandeep, Let you first uplift the society by contributing atleast 50% of your asset currently holding to our government,can you?If no or may not or whatever,then better not to comment above irresponsible statement.
Sandeep,
Please keep your “Looting Spree” with yourself.. dont spread lies and canards here.. People like you could not come out of the barbaric western attitude that government should always loot wealth from others and run the government.. that is what british did.. that is what the communists did.. Indian kingdoms, governed a prosperous kingdom, and generated wealth by means of genuine tax..
also keep Your perversion and aversion on God with yourself.. You people cannot take people for granted, as done few decades before..
Are you mad, Mr. Sandeep ? Dhakshina collected by Brahmins would have gone to their respective families. Why do they store it in temples ? Do you mean to say all the offerings that are being made in Tirupathy and Sabarimala are loot ? Public offer them. For them GOD is everything. People of those days were contented lot, and they do not want to posses extra wealth with them. They offer it to God. Yea, they may not be the sole property of Kings, but they are properties of the temple, and the kings properly maintained them. They never misutilised them. As such govt has no right to touch it. your opinion is dishonest not honest.
You want the money to be spent, which may lead to all kind of loot by politician and bureaucrats .Even the govt has accepted that out of the 100 rupee spent on poor only 20 reaches them. then how do you support such a move. i think you got some perverted thinking. plz correct them.
Nambi Narayanan
Since kingdom is not ruling at present and so they don’t need to contribute the wealth to government.It is the duty of government to uplift society otherwise why we need this civilian government.Every one have to understand that we have to admire our kingdom keeping away from british looters,otherwise all these belongings might find in london museum or part of Queen Elizabeth’s asset.
The legal position on the case is as below; Courtesy Khaleej times website;
“The petition leading to the stock-taking of the temple wealth emanated from dispute over the ownership of the temple and its property. Advocate T.P. Sundara Rajan moved the high court after Marthanda Varma stated that the treasures of the temple were his family properties.
A division bench of the court rejected the plea saying he was only a trustee who had retained the control of the temple for the benefits of devotees, state and the public at large. The court pointed out that it was a public temple under the law.
Marthanda Varma had laid claim over the property citing a covenant incorporated with the Travancore-Cochin Hindu Religious Institutions Act 1950 (TC Act) vesting the management of the temple with the ruler of Travancore.
However, the court rejected his claim as a ruler. “Marthanda Varma or his successor in the royal family would not come within the description of “ruler” as defined under Article 366(22) of the Constitution. As per the Constitutional 26th Amendment of 1971, the President of India ceased to have authority to recognise any person as a ruler of an Indian State or a successor of such ruler”, the judges said.
The judges held that Marthanda Varma could not “step into the shoes of the last ruler recognised by the President to claim management” of the temple by relying on the powers conferred under the TC Act.
The court observed that after the death of the last ruler of Travancore, the present ruler was the state government. Hence it directed the government to constitute a trust or statutory body to take over the temple.
The Supreme Court stayed the high court judgment on an appeal filed by Marthanda Verma and set up the committee to take inventory of the articles. With the committee finding a treasure trove in the temple, the dispute over the control of the temple may worsen in the coming days.”
So now the issue is interpretation of the term ruler. The whole issue rests with the SC, which we may pray takes a realistic view considering the socio- economic and cultural background of the case and not merely the legal intricacies.
As u have rightly pointed out Hindu religious temples have had a separate cultural and legal existence as in the case of Padmanabhaswamy or in the case of Meenakshiamman of Madurai, who all are venerated as rulers of the place they abode. The property is hence the Lord’s, who will efficiently take care of his affairs. We will pray for that divine intervention.
Ramya
i am saying the constitution itself is illegitimate.. it should be viewed as continuation of the colonial legacy.. so, the supreme court, should either accept that it is still colonising the bharat, or should accept to relook in the way, the so called independance was got..
The british took over power from erstwhile kings, and when they had left, it is these kingdoms which should have got back the freedom.. What legitimacy does supreme court have to declare a royal lineage as invalid?
EXACTLY. This is an Anglo-Saxon constitution.It was designed to loot this country. The current rulers are doing the same. A critical pillar of this looting was disenfranchising the erstwhile system, political, social and especially educational. Pre British we had close to 98% literacy. This was replaced by Macaulayan system creating clerks. By the time we are 20-22 we are already imbued with a clerical mind, parroting Anglo Saxon paradigms. This is the root cause for both our impoverishment and continued loot. The Travancore Kings are a living example of Raja Dharma. If the entire society reverts to Dharma based justice instead of case law based justice , the poor and the ordinary people will naturally benefit. of course the rulers wont. hence their resistance.
Friends we can justify a matter either positively of negatively..
But first and foremost thing is to capture the amount in Swiss bank belonging to Indian correpts who earned after independance ” a trustfull event” and then takeover politians and officials assests who made the assets by corruption and then take steps for the events befor independance.
best way to preserve this historic antiques, whose value can not be counted in rupees, is to make a safe mueseum atteched to temple ,operated by temple trust headed by royal family after making detailed inventory list with photographs for treasure.This wealth belongs to lord padmanabha swamy and goverement can not touch it.It is commandable that though royal family must be well aware about its value they preserved it without touching it. Noone else can have claim over lord’s treasure.It belongs to lord himself and goverment of india should only ensure that temple trust preserves it safly under protection and muesum should be set up for all hindu pilgrims visiting temple for darshan of lord.
Nice. The properties belong to GOD himself. Your suggestion is a good one.
You must know how these temples earned money. This is the money that belongs to the people of India. Indians visit this shrine and offer in the name of Tulabhara etc. On those days these temples acted as bankers and lent money to traders. These traders did business with rest of the world and paid an interest at the rate of 50 percent per annum. The wife, daughters sons were asked to be in their house till the money is returned to the temples. These pawned spouses and siblings were auctioned if the trader lost in the sea and didn’t return! and the amount was recovered. When the muslims invaded South India and captured Kerala girls they were also auctioned and the percentage of amount was paid to the temple!Then taxes were collected and deposited in the temples and temples acted as a sub treasury! The Name God was a sword that black mailed/ threatened each and every one and the citizens paid all the money to the temple.
The king represented the kingdom and it is not a personal wealth of a king.
You can read more stories in autobiography of Muslim travelers , who accompanied the Khans and Malikaffores and Khilgis. “South India and her Muslim Invaders” talks abut this.
By keeping this Jewels in safe it is not going to help any one. It is like a Moon that shines. If these Jewels are auctioned and utilised for the welfare of the Kerala people it will be good.
What is the use in keeping this money in a safe and pay for securing them and pay for the security?
What is the difference between this money and black money that is parked in SWISS BANK?
Please give relevant proof for your allegations.. and specific proof w.r.t padmanabhasamy temple..
You people invent lot of stories, to propogate your hatred..
Temple Economy Under the Colas by B.K.Pandeya. Bahri Publications New delhi 1984.
Please Visit ASI at Mysore where you can see more inscriptions.
Mr Ramachandran seems to have a chip on his shoulder due to his personal experiences in temples.
http://ponniyinselvan.in/forum/history-discussions/6-yr-old-indian-american-boy-iq-better-thaneinstin-7157.html
Can anybody see the basis for Mr.Pandeya’s book? To be fair, Mr.Ramachandran has backed his statement with a reference point, unless the reference point is misintrepreted or the reference book itself can be proven to have a bias, for the moment we have to take his point.Even if we disagree with him.
/** What is the use in keeping this money in a safe and pay for securing them and pay for the security?
**/
why does Britain keeps Kohinoor Diamond in their museum, instead of selling it and filling their coffers? When they treat a looted antique with such care, why should we treat our much older antiques with such disdain?..
/** By keeping this Jewels in safe it is not going to help any one. It is like a Moon that shines. If these Jewels are auctioned and utilised for the welfare of the Kerala people it will be good.
**/
These jewels are properties of padmanabha temple.. the travancore royal family has to take a decision on this.. you people have no right to comment on it.. As i said in this article, temple is NOT a public property for everyone to loot..
The government has to provide good governance, and enhance trade to do good to the people.. it should not loot from temples for this..
/** What is the difference between this money and black money that is parked in SWISS BANK?
**/
The jewels in the temple are donated by people of erstwhile travancore kingdom, as mark of their devotion..
The money in swiss bank are those, looted by the politicians, and secretly transferred there..
What you are saying is to place these temple jewel to the politicians, so that it will directly go to swizz bank..
At the out set can you give any documentary proof that Temples acted as treasury and did business. If the people of the temple did it is because of their might but not legally. No agama sastra says to trade with the people money. If you cannot give any documentary evidence please accept that you have just thrown the stone
You say that money should be used for the people of Kerala. Why Kerala why not to only Thiruvanathapuram. Why not to that lane and so on so forth. Hence that money should be handed over to a Hindu religious trust and may be used for only Hindus. Because the temple belongs to Hindus but not for other religions.
What ever said and done they are antiques worth preserving in their fullest glory. That is tribute we pay to their craftmanship, artistry and talents of our fore fathers, forgetting all about how the jewels made their way into the temple.Download: http://www.ieType.com/f.php?FbSuMR
What ever said and done they are antiques worth preserving in their fullest glory. That is tribute we pay to their craftmanship, artistry and talents of our fore fathers, forgetting all about how the jewels made their way into the temple
The way I see it, I dont give money to temples, which is worth talking about. I therefore have no locus standii to talk about this.
This is a matter between the temple, donors, trustees, borrowers and lenders. Any one else has no business to talk to make any comments about this.
Is anyone here tlking to the temple trust.
@Anurag,
Rightly said.. i dont think, anyone here is linked to temple trust..
My simple question: Will Mr. SundraRajana consider to appeal to open Swiss and local vaults of the Great Indian politicians including the Great Indian “Royal” Polical FAMILY??
@Soni,
What is Swiss issue to do with temple wealth?
HI,
Please fill the form and press ‘SUBMIT’ below.
###This form is an effort to collect contact details of all nationalist bloggers and active people on Internet.
It will be used to send some important updates or invitation of conferences. Note: Your contact details will be kept confidential.###Narendra Modi For PM
http://www.sanghparivar.org/nationalist-bloggers-register-here
Devang Dave.
@Anish,
Please tell me how many non-hindus paid tax to travancore kings? Even if they had paid, it belongs to the kingdom, and NOT for public looting..
For eg, when pay tax to indian govt, you cannot go and demand that it belongs to common people.. the govt owns it, and it uses the taxes, for all purposes, including military, secret programmes etc..
The wealth found in temples, contains donations offered by devotees (NOT common people).. so it rightfully belongs to the temple and its gaurdians..
Hello Hello, every one pls stop discussing about to whom it belongs to and please stop playing hindu muslim games. The ornaments found are not just tonnes of gold. Those are antiques. Those are made by skilled gold smiths. It would be very very hard to found such a skilled professionals now. Those things should be preserved in museum, which would depict the entire world how Great our kings are and how skilled our gold smiths are.
People who allege that those belong to public and should be distributed, i request you to assess your income correctly and to pay tax thereon and to be honest to the fellow citizens, the society will come up by itself then. No need to auction and distribute the foundings.
It is our duty to preserve the ornaments in museum. Let the income derived from the museum be used for upliftment of the soceity.
The cellar was earlier opened in 1880 during the reign of King Vishakam Tirumal Ram Verma. It was never touched by his descendants till the Supreme Court constituted a 7 member team to inspect and do the valuation..Mr Uthradam Tirunaal Marthanda Verma has been trying to protect the wealth of Lord Shri Padmanabha selflessly. I want to ask Advocate T P Soundra Rajan a simple question. Who according to you should loot the wealth of god, which has been preserved selflessly for so long?
Yes it is the temple money and it should belong to temple only but what is the big use of keeping so much of wealth under ground when India needs money. Better a good meaningful trust shall take the caharge
I THINK OUR KINGS WERE WORKED HARD AND STRUGGLE THEMSELVES TO PROTECT US FROM EXTERNAL AFFAIRS AND PROBLEMS. THEIR TREASURES ARE THE SWEAT OF THEIR HARDWORK AND WISDOM.
THEY MAY KEPT THESE TREASURES FROM FOREIGN INVASIONS FOR THEIR COMING GENERATION. SO IT IS BETTER TO GIVE BACK TO ROYAL FAMILY MEMBERS.
@Ramachandran,
Thanks for the reference you have given.. i will go through it and get back to you
@Ramachandran,
i came across the following mail of yours in ponniyin selvan..
http://ponniyinselvan.in/forum/history-discussions/6-yr-old-indian-american-boy-iq-better-thaneinstin-7157.html
You have mentioned only some few perumal temples in chola region.. even if it is true, it cannot be assumed as a norm for all temples..
Btw, the use of words like slaves, are questionable.. there are many mis-understandings, distortions, and manipulation of our history.. I could not locate any online links for reading that book.. will comment on yours, after getting hold of the book..
Hello All, I am a Catholic from Sri Lanka. Probably I may be a better person to give an extenal view of this.
1) It dosent matter to whom this temple or treasures belong to. That is imaterial
2) what ever that has been found in the vault why do people have to look at it as GOLD, SILVER, DIAMONDS and etc ?? Why are u people looking at it only by the material value ??
3) there are things that are more valuable than GOLD SILVER AND DAIMONDS. It is called HERITAGE
4) do anyone understand the word HERITAGE I doubt not.
5) what ever that has been found in the temple is OUR HERITAGE. Whether we belong to Bhrath or not, whether we are hindus, chiristian or muslims. This is a part of the heritage of our land.
6) these treasures are not valued in material value they should be valued agaisnt our history. This is a part of our history which we ahve to be proud of.
7) I am sure each of these pieces will bear evidence for our past history.
eg: what dose the coins of Naploeaninc era say >>> defiently they say there was a rich trade between europe and us. Is it only that ?? No it says that we were producing good and they were depended on us to purchase it.
8) similarly if properly analysed each will bear evidence to our glorious past.
9) but unfortunately some IDIOTS only think of their stomach and talk tell give this to the poor !!!! and some say develop the country with this money
10) how were u guys planing to develop this country prior to finding these ??
11) 2G spectrum it is said the scandal is worth 1 lakh crore almost equivaent to this treasure, why dont u guys find that lost money and use it for poverty and development
12) some reports say Indians have more money in the swiss accounts putting rest of the whole world together. Why dont u get those money and use it for the poor
13) why do u want to destroy our HERITAGE.
14) because for those who want to use this wealth is trying to find easy options. U guys are not bothered to get those hidden money in swiss account why bother when u can destroy our heritage.
15) and worse part is some one here says to auction these………… My foot. can I ask u some thing. Whos is going to evaluate the real value ?? what are they goign to do with what they ahve bought ?? melt it ?? I am sure u wont be bothered because all what u r bothered is making money and eating it ? who is goign to buy it ?? Indians……….. if so why cant u get that money from those indians and use it for the poor and development ???? aha u mean it will be bought by the westerns ?? that mean u guys want to self our heritage and history to westerners ??? if money is so important why not sell ur own wife, mother, sister and daughter ?? I am sure u will get more money to give the poor and to infastructure development!!!!
16) some one here have said this money is from the tax and gifts to the king and the temple. So what. All over the world all the governments levied taxes. All over people give money to temples and churches. Who many preserve it ??
17) so some have asked why to keep it locked up ?? Do u know the meaning of national wealth ?? I would of course like to have a high security museum and for people like us to come and admire it and know our glorious past. Trust me my friend u will make more money from tourist on the long run than this wealth.while retaining this as well.
18) why are u people now very concerned about this wealth ? did any one of u know about it till 27th of june ?
19) I am sure many of u know about the Big temple in Tanjore. In there there is inscriptions to say how much of gold and jewllery was given by Rajaraja cholan and his sister and wife to the temple what has happened to all those welath ??
at least here the Majarajah’s preserved it
20) let me come to a recent news item. How many of u guys know that many of the rare jewellery give to Thirupathy by then Emperor Krisnadevarayar had gone missing !!!! and it is said that they melted it to make new jewellery. I think that is a cock and bull story. Thrupathy ahve enough new gold to make jewellery there was no need to melth these perhaps some one in-charge made a good use of it. And mind u guys it was rare antique jewellery. How many of u have made noise over it? what action ahve been taken towards it ?? nothing isnt it.
atleast here these have been preserved for 100s of years.
21) I am sure the Travancore royal house was aware of the wealth in it. May not be exact amount but I am sure they knew all the riches that was there. But they havent touched them. That shows their intergrity and honesty. Had they done this upto now I am sure they will do it for another 1000 years too.
@Rohan,
Excellent and Brillian Reply.. i am greatly indebted to you for your comment.. every point of yours is a thunder bolt on the crooked critics.. thank you a lot..
Dear Senthil,
though I am from Sri Lanka and a Catholic I am sure I know more of Indian history esp south indian more than some of the critics commenting. Infact I am proud to say I know more about hinduism than some of the hindus themselves.
Each time I come to India have visited most of the temples though being a catholic and admired the sculptures and archtecture, Infact I have been to Padmanapam palace in Kanyamumari . So I know what I am talking about. It may be true that temples were acting as bank where wife and children were given as bond and they were sold as slaves. Probably it did happen. That is out of contexted in this situation. It dosent matter how this wealth came. The debate is how it is to be preserved. Further even if temples were acting as banks what was wrong in it ?? Havent these people heard about Templars Knights an order of catholic monks in the mediveal times. They were the bankers for the whole of europe. They used to lend money to kings and Pope even. So what is wrong. In tamil there is a proverb ” the money got by selling dog wont bark”. In my opinion these wealth belongs to all of us, (in the sense not to sell and get money), it belong to all of us to be proud of.to say we are from this region, this belongs to South Asia. I am sure even the europeans who will see this will be proud of OUR HERITAGE. But the sad fact is OUR OWN people dont appreciate it.
@Rohan,
Thanks for your latest reply.. a certain vested interests in the intellectual segment, had been systematically manipulating the public opinion, using media and tv.. in the past, scores of temple lands has been sold using the same arguments.. i am happy, that people atleast now start to realise the truth behind..
The issue of temple acting as banker is not yet substantiated.. Ramachandran who raised this, is able to point only to tanjore temple of cholas.. in my view that doesnt apply to other temples..
Even today, people donate lot of gold to temples in the form of ornament.. that’s is form of dedication to their god… gold is still a valuable, and these devotees view it as privilege to offer the most valuable to god.. and even in our kula temple, people donate in forms of gold and silver..
There is a inherent sense of dharma in every devotees, that temple wealth should not be mis-used, otherwise, it will destroy our vamsam.. “Sivan Sothu Kula naasam” is the famous phrase used here in tamilnadu..
As you said, we have to cherish our heritage lying in these temples and their architectures.. hope, vested interests in the intellectual domain be cornered and phased out to enable a free and fair thinking..
Hi,Srilankan, I appreciate your concern. At the same time,please stay away from our issue! As a foreigner,you have no right to interfere in our internal matters. We know how to deal with our treasure.
dear Sritharan,
this is not only ur treasure it is the heritage. Further I have already told above HOW WELL U HAVE MANAGED MOST OF UR TREASURES. And we all know how well u have managed the lands and assests belonging to the temples in the past and present.
Sritharan.. GOD is beyond regional boundaries.. Srilankans also worship the same padmanabhasamy..
I have interacted with ordinary Sri Lankans, and found the common man’s values are no different from any ordinary Indian. We all belong to the same heritage.Lets not confuse other issues with points raised here by Rohan. Also I have a Tamil Christian friend and a kerala christian friend. Both of them have educated me on many aspects of Hindu Dharma which was enlightening. All of these are true examples of our heritage. What current religious cloth they wear to cover the same body of heritage is not relevant.
As rightly said by many of our friends that foreign rullers (not only britishers) have looted Indians like anything. It is the great idea of the king who attached the property with the temple and so attached with the sentiment of the people who belongs to Hindu Religion.
As per my view the property belongs to the king, to the people of Travancore.Central Govt. should not have any right over the property as per the logic & ethics of the soceity.
Thanks
Amar
that is god treasurey and god have to decided suresh
before that beware of opening the last vault which has naga bandham
Hindus visit temples and pay their offerings as they need these temples to be maintained, so that they can alleviate thier disturbed mind and seek protection under almighty. Offerings and donations are done with their own will and need. If the Kings were proclaiming these treasures, they would not have preserved the treasures, which has no listings or proofs. I mean, who can do that, when money is at your door steps only? But the Royal family of Travancore believed as saints of Sri Padmanabha Swamy. Agreed, that there is no more “kings rule” as the Supreme court justifies it. But there is nothing that King has to rule.. its not a territory. This temple is their own private, just as we have a pooja room in our house. It belongs to the Royal family and any decision should be taken by them alone. Now it looks as though our Government was waiting for this treasure .. and in fact as though they are so badly in need to break open into the private property of the Royal family.
Dear All:
Those who want this treasure to be fragmented, sold and distributed to all people should also say that the wealth of Taj Mahal (Jewels and Gold) or that of Hyderabad Nissam should also be fragmented and distributed to all. If this treasure was found in a mosque would you dare to to say that it should be fragmented and distributed to all? I hate to see any part of this treasure be given to subsidize travel to Mecca or to people standing in street corners of Thiruvananthapuram demanding “Nocku Kooli” [Wages for looking not working]. Why not place the objects of historic significance in a Museum within the Temple; solid gold and silver placed in a bank and the money used to run charitable institutions like Schools, Hospitals, Fine arts etc controlled by the Royal Family as they wish much in the same realm of Devotion they had with God Padmanabha Swamy?
Gopal Nair
As you have said about Hyderabad, being a Hyderbadi i request you note that our salarjung musem is looted by one chief minster and Falak Nauma palace was looted by another CM. The english looted our Kohinoor The saifabad college Bunker which has got great treasure was found empty recently. So whom to believe this government No not let it be kept like that and wait for a good governance to come
Who gave the right to SUpreme court to interfere in a private temple?
Where is the abuse of trust? SO much wealth has been protected INTACT for centuries..
Now it’ll be so hard to protect it..
Can the supreme court dare to interfere in any of the muslim private matters..
What frustrates me is no hindy has the guts to resist the abuse..
@hindu,
bcoz hindu society is still enslaved by colonial government..
If we let the supreme court open the last vault with naga bandhanam ..shame on us..
by tghe way mr.senthil, thanks for your efforts..
I cant even fathom the guts of supre court..even its own chief justice was faced with allegation of misuse of power..this wealth may be protected hardly for 10 0r 15 more years..
I am amazed at senthils ridiculous comments that the gold belongs to GOD AND THE KINGS.My friend,remove the cobwebs from your mind and forget your slavery to kings and queens.All these so called kings and queens exploited your ancestors and still you want the money to be used only by them.What sort of a person are you?Just for your information ,GOD IS OMNIPOTENT AND PRESENT EVERYWHERE and the entire world is his gift and GOD wants human beings to live fairly without any discrimination and all mankind are children of GOD.In India,religious donation is exempted from tax and helps in saving income tax which CLEVER CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS can explain and so many people with LOTS OF WEALTH(legal or illegal) use religion to actually hide their income.
the Indian kings are NOT exploitative as you have imagined..
And our current political rulers patted the back of 400 million starving Indians (our offical poverty line) and offered them two meals a day? My grandfather said you could do a padayatra from Chennai to Rameswaram and rest in choultry or temple every 30 kilometres for 3 days free food and a tank to bathe. The funds required for these institutions came from temples and/or local merchants donations. Thats how the social system worked. Direct charity to the needy. Not swallowing 85% of every rupee (Rajiv Gandhi’s statement – not mine) before 15% reached the poor. THATS how we reached a figure of 400 million poor. I would rather be exploited by a Dharmic king (which is an oxymoron BTW), than by these crooked politicians.
@rony, u seem to forget that not all rulers are exploiters. Even the elected government rules us. So r u saying the governments are also exploiting us? or wud u say it is like bearing yourself with your own hand.
Coming to religious donations, the exemptions you are taking about applies to trusts. But what we are taking about is a deity. Even in Indian law the deity is a separate juridical person. Show me one person in india who gives donations to temple to save tax. what u say may be right w r t religious trusts but not temples. As senthil said temple and temple property in indian culture is very sacro sanct, that no one dares to meddle with. I remember one of my friends quoting the travancore royal family’s tradition of dusting their feet after they come out of the temple to as a mark of indicating that they have not taken anything from the temple.
There are numerous stories across south india, where at a time when there was a fear of moghul invasion, the temple jewellery and valuables being put in vaulted secret chambers. There are cases of gold structures covered in mud or other low value outer layers to protect them from foreign loots. There is a temple at Devadanapatty near Theni in TN, named Munghil Annai Kamatchi amman temple, there the main deity is closed for public view and poojas are done only to the door of the inner sanctum. The upper roof of the sanctum is made of a kind of grass, which is changed each year with workers tying their eyes closed. People may think this to a mere tradition of the temple. But I have a strong feeling that our forefathers would have protected the treasures of the temple tied under the wraps of faith.
So please be aware, that merely because it was kept secretly, the wealth is not illbegotten, which is the impression created by the media. The wealth was kept secretly with the intention of protecting it.
I strongly feel, the Supreme Court in the first place shud not have ordered opening of vaults, which are a matter of faith of a religion.
Finally tell me if you can trust the wealth of such huge propensity, with the so called rulers of present day as people have done with the former rulers?.
I am fully with you that we cannot trust the present system of governance to be able to handle this wealth for the welfare of its citizens.In fact,it is amazing that this wealth has been lying for so long and the very fact that these vaults were built in the 16 th century is testimony to the fact that it was supposed to be a storing space.The thing I do not like is when we intelligent educated people start dividing GOD and saying this is my GOD and that is your GOD.Come on ,just bcoz of human self interest and control,GOD has been divided into various religions.So get over it and start believing that ALL HUMANS ARE GODS OWN CHILDREN AND EVERYBODY HAS A RIGHT TO DIGNIFIED LIFE.This money is an asset for the people of this country and just as OIL WEALTH is used by GULF countries to improve the life of the people by providing FREE EDUCATION, HOSPITAL CARE, PENSIONS it is high time that we can use this resource as well as ALL OTHER MONEY and assets to provide a decent living for ALL INDIANS.(No casteism / no religion / no divisions)
GOD is personal to every one.. there is no universal god, and such universal single god is a abrahamic concept..
If temples take care of people, what is the democratic government for? And who will pocket the tax revenues?
Its a naive fantasy you are dreamiing of just like some of our innocent freedom fighters did..only to lose big land as pakistan..
There is a lot of corruption in our governmental bodies and in our welfare systems. Since 1947, we have spent more than 1,00,000,00 million rupees in our governmental schemes and 70% of that is stolen by our corrupted political leaders, officials, business men etc. So inspite of using this treasure for public welfare they must keep it as it is because Lord is the owner of this treasure. Inspite of penitrating their cruel and cunning sight upon this treasure, our government must bring the huge black money into our country which is kept in Swiss and other International Banks and they can use that money for public welfare.
As far as this treasure is concerned, it is under custodianship of Travancore Kingdom and it belongs to none that means a zero treasure for everyone. We must give reward to The Kings of Travancore for their faith and honesty, they have brought an example of custodianship maintained for more than 350 years and not even a single penny has missing out of it. On the other side look at our Government and Our Ruling System, do they have such a faith and honesty towards our nation and it’s treasures which is earned through our tax collecting revenue system.
In 1949, when all the kingdoms merged into the Indian consituency at that time all the kingdoms have donated a lot of money (gold, silver, gems, emralds etc.) in welfare to the nation but what happned ultimately??
So it must be kept as it is under the custodianship of Travancore Royals after completion of the total inventory.
Previously India was known as Golden Peacock. Thanks to the ROYAL KING since he has saved some of the feather of Golden Peacock and made us proud of his bravery.
hi everybody……..
I want to know why britishers not able to take over the treasury and did anybody knows about the treasury before and also how the security of such a large treasury was maintained before……………….?and why gov has not opened the chambers before……??
I am a student and all this arises in my mind ….did any
bcoz, it has been kept secret for long.. even the previous kings of the royal family might have known this..
We know It’s wealth of royal family. In my opinion some of them exhibit in museum, use some of them for the development of Padmanabha Temple. Major part should take by the Government for state’s development.
Very recently we have seen millions of currency said to have looted from puttaparthy santhinilayam in containers – This age of curruption in high places has no credibility to handle the padmanabhas treasure to serve the down troden. It will be certainly misused. Let some golden age come in 100 years or so to come and utilise the gold. I donot believe sonia or her gene donors from astral plane.
I 100000…..% agree with the author. Excellently explained to the common man. Great take on Hindu culture. This treasure belongs to the God Padmanabha …
You are correct Suresh..
God has to decide what to do with the treasure..
You know the story of Perumal borrowing money from Kuberan to stage his wedding with her consort.. His debt in the Kali period would have grown to many many billions.. Now He has got a big Jackpot.. Hereafter He need not get Sin-tainted money from people. through Undiyal collection, to pay interest.. Now He could use the Treasure from His another branch temple to settle the loan borrowed from Kuberan with interest and principal.. So leave all the treasure to his custody.. If He settles His dues to Kuberan, then people need not commit sins to earn money to pay Him through offerings..
I am so thankful to our kings for securing our country’s wealth from the Britishers. I am so proud to say I belong to the same country as the royal family- who till this day have stayed true to Lord Padmanaba and our heritage. Our kings are great selfless beings. Not at all like the western rulers, who even today live grandly on the taxpayer’s money and on the money looted from contries like ours.
The wealth belongs to the royal family and the Lord. But just like me several people around the world would love an opportunity to be able to see some of these antiques. So I hope they open up a museum and display these priceless articles. This will create a lot of jobs and a good revenue for the state and the temple.
Pingback: There’s a complete record of temple treasures – Nagasamy | Senthilraja’s blog
Padmanabhaswamy is still following two to 20 tumbler system…
For him 1 tumbler,=
For thayar 1 tumbler
For Anumaar 1 tumbler
etc.., etc..,
After that bhaktars are given in one donnai ..not even tumbler……interestingly poonuls and non poonuls are invariably given same type donnai indicating that they all belong to SC status inside temple
So
Samy = FC
Thayar = FC
Anumar = BC
Bhaktas = SC (Poonuls and non poonuls alike)
@suresh,
Thanks a lot for your detailed comments..
The breast tax that sarathi is telling comes only in MSN article.. when i enquired further, it was NOT a tax for giving milk, but seems to be a tax for covering upper part of the body..
Part of भारत-तंत्र Bharat-tantra polity is that rulers must not hoard wealth. Raja Raghu, most famously emptied his treasury regularly. When Kautsa Muni went to Raja Raghu for help in guru dakshina, Raja Raghu pointed out an empty treasury – and made preparations to raid Kuber’s treaury, to help out Kautsa muni.
Similarly, Yudhishthir did a Rajsuya Yagna which was on a grand scale – and spent large amounts of money for daan-dakshina.
I wonder if it is a good idea for a temple to hoard so much wealth?
Good points anurag.. was there temples present during Raghu’s era? It seems, The concept of temple evolved only in later period.. do we find any mention in ramayana or mahabharatha about building grand temples?
This wealth is preserved for some reason. Let the time come for finding the reason. Then god only tell us how to spend. When The government can say we will tell you at the right time and the Prime minister says the law takes it course then why not god could say at the right time and the rule of the god shall also be accepted
U turn by supreme court – to not open the B vault is bad!
Good for the Royal family and believers
Sad for the common man eagerly waiting for the value of treasure in it.
Worry for the security people and govt who are supposed to safeguard it
and last but not least, Happiest moment for the thieves who want it!