The chidambaram Natarajar temple is one of the grand temple, that’s admired for its tradition and architecture. This temple is famouly quoted in day to day life by tamilians as “Chidambara Rahasiyam”
The recent controversary over the chidambaram Nataraja temple, is yet another attempt to disturb important places of Hinduism, by vested interests. The confusion created seems to be intentional, and deliberate attempt to disturb the peaceful spiritual atmosphere there.
About Chidambaram Temple:
The temple town of Chidambaram, lies 58 km south of Pondicherry is dedicated, with a beautiful temple, dedicated to Lord Nataraja – in the form of a Cosmic Dancer. This is one of the few temples, where Shiva and Vishnu are enshrined under one roof. Chidambaram is also known as Thillai, since the place was originally a forest of Thillai (excecaria agallecha) shrub. It is one of the five Shaivite mukti sthalams (designated places of
liberation). The other four Kalahasti, Kanchipuram, Tiruvannamalai and Tiruvanaikaval are also within few hundred kilometers from each. A unique feature of Chidambaram is that a person of any race or religion can visit the shrine and pray. It is an important pilgrim centre and a holy place for Shaivite as the famous Nataraja Temple is located here.
Who are the Deekshithars?
The deekshithars are a community or sect within Brahministic Varna, who is mainly responsible for priestly duties in Shiva temples. Click here to know about Temple Archakas, from an article in another blog.
Deekshithars and Nataraja Temple:
Administration and Management of the Thillai (Chidambaram) Nataraja emple, which is the holiest of the holy Shiva Temple vest with the Dikshitars of Thillai (Chidambaram) . The HR & CE department cannot exercise any Jurisitiction over them, neither can the State government give Directions to anyone .These facts have been established beyond doubt by the Supreme Court of India. Dikshitars are micro-minority community in India. Their total number does not exceed even 250. They hold it as an eternal duty to perform poojas in nataraja shiva temple, and they were given this right for thousands of years.
About the Temple Issue :
The recent confusion and issue generated over the nataraja temple is that some section of people from alternate sub-religion of hinduism, attempted to sing devaram, a devotional tamil literary song praising Lord Shiva, inside the Nataraja Temple. This seems to be a noble adventure by those supposed tamil lovers. But, the reality is something different, as described below.
The Dikshitars themselves recite the Hymns of Thevaram (Tamil shaivite hymns during the termination of Kala poojas. They do so by standing on the “kanakasabai” . This right cannot be claimed by anybody else, as per the traditional setup. A devotee wanting to sing Thevaram can choose a place outside Kanakasabai. Problems arose when a few people forced themselves into kanakasabai to recite Thevaram.
Initially the police prevented it and arrested the persons who made such a forced entry. However after a passage of a few hours they have arrested 15 Dikshitars invoking section 307 of IPC as if they have attempted to murder people. These police actions against Dikshitars have made it impossible for the Dikshitars to conduct their Poojas and Aradana during Shivarathri which falls on 6th March 2008 for Chidambaram Tradition. Maha Shivarathri is the most important day for the Shivites . Now confusion prevails for no fault of Dikshitars, who faced all these assaults for all these years. (This issue is constantly rigged for many years, to drive the dikshithars from the temple)
Some introspection:
How come its easy for any one, to simply accuse anything on Hindu priests, and Hindu acharyas. Earlier, it was Kanchi Shankaracharya, who was accused of murder and attempt to escape to Nepal. Now, the dikshithars, for no fault, are blatantly charged of Murder.
Are we in free India? Evidently, its the same laws, and more importantly the same mentality of Britishers that our beurocracy has so far acquired and maintained. Unlike in our traditional setup, where the rulers are answerable to the people, the current powerstructure is so designed that when any one captures the power, get isolated from the public, and they start enjoying and abusing those powers.
In Tamilnadu, its the same case. Whether its DMK or ADMK, the target is power. and after attaining it, they become unaccountable for another 5 years. And the police structure is another autocratic entity, that’s used as per the CM’s wish.
And in this Dikshithars issues, the same happened. Blatantly accuse the dikshithars, and who will care for it..
More importantly, the question is why is this issue generated all of a sudden? Particularly during the maha shivarathri, which is an auspicious day (night) for Hindus.
Essentially, this Nataraja Temple is one in the list of temple controversaries. Travancore Temple, Guruvayur temple, sabarimala ayyappan temple, Tirupathi temple, siddhi vinayak temple,…. and latest addition is the Chidambaram Natarajar Temple.
The Secret Agenda:
One of the secret agenda is to drive the dikshithar away and take control of the temple. This has been the tactics of the vested interests, earlier, but, they could not touch Natarajar temple, because, there was clear archeological records that these dikshithars were the traditional administrators of the temple.
Failing to take over through government order, constant attempts were made to defame those dikshithars, invoke casteism against those dikshithars, and to create issues among them. But, these attempts have failed so far. Particularly, the casteism part has miserably failed, when Tol Tirumavlavan, the dalit icon of tamilnadu, went to that temple. prayed, and wrote a note praising those dikshithars.
Who is behind these issues? The answer is imminent. The atheists at the seat of power in tamilnadu, and the highest seat of power structure, is influenced by the vatican, the catholic Church, the very organisation, that caused the destruction of numerous culture in Europe, and numerous cultures across a Africa.
One may wonder, where & How does vatican come in to this picture. It just requires some effort in understanding the history, and the religions.
May the lord of dance save Hinduism from getting imperilled
I did not find anything different than what one finds in irrational and idiotic writings of any standard Hindu(read Brahmin) fundamentalists. The irony is you are invoking history to level some vague claims and arguments about Vatican, Christianity blah…blah…blah
Let us not deviate from the point. It is pointless to talk abt European history. Let us confine ourselves only to Indian history. It is a fact that barbaric invaders primarily from Afghanistan and Central Asia destroyed great cultural treasures of the Subcontinent inspired by predatory islamic military ideology. But more damage to native culture and civilization was/is/will be caused by none other than our beloved Brahmin and other dwija castes. Fact of the matter civilization to the subcontinent was given by Tamils whose values are ancestral worship, secularism and humanism. These are the foundations on which India is still able to survive as a single nation inspite of the destructive and self-indulgent practices of the apex layer of Indian society .i.e brahmins and other dwija castes. If you are really interested in “Finding out” the truth and stand by it – First start reading books “written by all authors from all angles” not just the ones written by Arun Shourie and Tarun Vijay or Savarkar or all those Sri Srees.
Why not? Brahmin tradition is part of Vedic Tradition. Brahmin tradition belongs to all Hindus. The most ancient Tamil records available today is NOT alien to this tradition. You want to confine to Indian History and not talk about the the barbaric invasions of Vatican into Africa and Americas…fine. But lets talk correct Indian History. The very Tamil hymns that the pseudo Tamils are trying to cry aloud from Chidambaram (after hiding the fact that the Dhikshitars are singing them every day at the temple) are FULL of praise for Brahmins and Vedic traditions. Secularism is just an insipid excuse to condemn anything vedic.
See what the fundamentalist Christians in the USA have to say about Christianity.
Read the last line as ” See what the fundamentalist Christians in the USA have to say about Christianity and Secularism”
And lets not forget a very minority community “Chidambaram Dhikshitars” were coerced and harassed just to please the people in power with warped sense of Secularism and Tamil loyalty. And what about Media? It was a crying shame none came forward to record the truth. All were intentionally or indifferently carrying the Government version of
the incidents. The truth is it is a Private Temple wholly belonging to the Dhikshitars and
HR&CE has no ‘locus standi’ there. Government officials, police and the so called Tamil
rights group members were the TRESSPASSERS. And it was all planned to happen before Sivarathri a Hindu Festival. Wake up Hindus.. you are under attack…
தமிழ்நாட்டில் இருக்கும் ஒரு கோவிலில் தமிழில் பாடி ஒருவன் வழிபட முடியாதென்றால் அப்படிப்பட்ட ஒரு கோவிலே தேவை இல்லை. அடுத்து, சுதந்திரத்திற்கு பிறகு, அனைத்து கோவில்களும் அரசுடமை ஆக்கப்பட்ட பிறகு, இக்கோவிலுக்கு மட்டும் ஏன் சலுகை வழங்க வேண்டும்? இக்கோவிலும் ஒரு குறுநில மன்னராட்சி போல்தான் நடைபெருகிறது. அவ்வாட்சி ஒழிக்கப்படவேண்டும்.
பதினைந்து ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முன் பளபளப்பாயிருந்த கோவில் சுற்றுப்பகுதி இன்று கோவில் ஒரு மாட்டு தொழுவம் போல காட்சி அளிக்கிறது. அனைச்சு திருப்பணிகளும் பொதுமக்களால் செய்யப்படுகின்றன. ஆனால் கோவில் வசூலில் 90% தீட்சிதர்களல் அதிகாரப்பூர்வமாக அபகரிக்கப்படுகின்றன.
இதற்கெல்லாம் என்ன பதில்?
இராஜா
டெட்ராய்ட்
யூ.எஸ்.ஏ
Reply to R RAJA Detroit
First of all, everyone should understand that there is no ban on Tamil in Chidambaram Temple. This is an intentional smear campaign. The Dhikshitars know more Tevaram than average Tamil devotee and they pay more respect to Tirumurais than anybody else.
The temple has no great revenues. There is no Hundi there and only thru private contributions of ardent devotees that the temple is run. Fifteen years back more tenants were paying rents for lands leased from temples in TamilNadu. Now it is almost Nil as Tamilians shameless and free of ethics by the day. How to maintain temples then?
Does Raja know the state of Temples under Govt. control? How Palani Temple is plundered of its collections? How an air conditioned SuV is bought in the name of Bannari Amman Temple and how it is solely for the use of HR&CE Minister? Does he know that the annual rental collection of Vaitheeswaran Temple is not even Rs. 10 per acre (the temple has 10000 acres of land)? How many temples which are Tirumurai temples and which are more than 1000 years old are without Pujas?
Who is Raja to say such a temple is not required? Let him get his facts straight before making sweeping statements . The fact that the Tamil Rights Group today took a procession and garlanded E V Ramaswamy’s statue is ample proof that the disturbances caused at Chidambaram were not by devotees but by Atheists who would do this to Hindu temples and not to mosques or churches.
Thank you so much Mr.Alroy for bringing out the fact that Vaitheeswaran temple owns ten thousand acres of land. The fact is that temples in “Tanjore” delta region are the biggest “zamindars” of Tamilnadu from medieval times(i.e Chola period). When Chola power was in its heights, they brought innumerable brahmins from Telugu and Kannada regions and put them in charge of performing continuous “yagnas” in the massive granite temples (which also served as royal courtyards,treasury and “dance club” and etc.Temple in Tamil is “Kovil or Koyil” which means residence of the king) they built all over delta region with the hope of washing off the sins and getting “Moksha” (their sins are killing lakhs of people in the battlefield and plundering and raping) as suggested by the brahmins. To maintain those temples and expensive yagnas they “gifted” thousands of acres of fertile land by usurping lands of farmers and forcing the farmers to work for meagre wages. Ideology of ’service to god’ was used to justify and derive social consent. And invariably these lands were given on lease to brahmins who were appointed as village heads of such communities which were called “chathurvedi mangalams”. You can notice many places in delta region ending with the suffix “mangalam”. This type of “land grant” villages were referred as “Brahmadeya” villages. Noboru Karashima, the foremost historian of medieval South India has documented from numerous inscriptional sources how in many places farmers resisted “Brahmadeya” phenomenon and in some places they defeated and proved non-Brahmadeya system as a more socially equitable system. But the urge to create a more centralized state with appropriating power and imperial intentions to raise huge land and naval forces to expand the empire (thats how they reached upto Indonesia, Cambodia Thailand and Bengal) successfully crushed farmers’ resistance and resulted in highly exploitative Brahmadeya system all over the delta region. This model was subsequently replicated in other fertile regions of Tamil region. (One can clearly notice this fact if you try to trace the ancestral roots of any brahmin family…invariably they must have come either from some fertile village near Kaveri delta or Tamiraparani delta or such place)But once the Chola empire collapsed after being rotten by Brahminism the subsequent Nayaka and Maratha rule reinforced brahmin hegemony and made them “Mirasdars” of delta region. Until 1920s-1970s when brahmins started abandoning their lands in favour of urban assets(Professional services in Govt and Pvt sectors and Overseas), they acted as the “bloodsuckers” of the vast mass of labourers. As per govt records out of 3000 Mirasdars in Tanjore region more than 2000 were brahmins and remaning were mostly Naidus and Reddys. The 1968 Kilavenmani massacre when 56 Paraiyar community farm labourers and children were burnt alive for organizing themselves and demanding wage hike was also perpetrated by these bloodsucking alliance of brahmins and naidus in the delta region. Valivalam Desikar was the most prominent mirasu from that time. All the so-called nationalist freedom fighters, barristers(like MR.Cho Ramaswamy’s fathers and great grandfathers) all came from these blood-sucking families. The British rulers most of whom were racists and shared the Aryan supremacy theory most popular then in 19th and early 20th century
(Anglo-saxons were also people of Germanic origin and English is one of the Indo-Aryan language) favoured the fair-skinned brahmins in giving them education and positions in Colonial Adminstration. Now one can get a clear picture of who is who in Tamilnadu and why are they supporting and doing what they are doing.
Instead of giving vent to your fundamentalist and deeply-embedded casteist/racist mindset please start reading books that talk facts and not spew venom and start thinking. We still believe that every human being has an urge to know the facts and analyze them rationally before accepting and acting on them. Brahmins as the elite section of the society should have played a progressive role..but unfortunately they are still doing the same mischievous things by stoking fundamentalism spreading irrational practices and beliefs and poisoning the society. The subtly poisoned content of brahmin-owned press like Dinamalar, Dinamani, Kalki, Ananda Vikatan, Thuglak, Hindu and Indian Express stand testimony to the long arm of brahmin oligarchy to influence and form public opinion and play a regressive role. The recent Sethusamudram project is yet another evidence pointing out that they have not changed yet.
We appeal and hope they change for the good.
My God Arul. What hatred of someone.
When one’s mind is so full of hatred he cannot speak of justice or equality. Look at the words -”Bloodsuckers” and other such nasty terms.
A little bit of historical research will lead us to start calling everyone in the world blood suckers and rapists. This kind of language and attitude is no different from the so called brahmins whom you say you hate- because ur hatred in targeted at a community and not at specific individuals.
Every tribe in world history has been cause for some evil in the world due to some bloody events or lifestyles. Of course each individual has his own response to a condition. Have you forgotten that there wre many farmers who also willingly admired the qualities of many worthy brahmins(not all).The same is also true when looked at the otherway.
Some history to open your closed mind.
Buddhist kings have known to have suppressed hinduism(even today for example in ceylon). Hindu kings destroying buddhist temples (for example in ceylon).Christians harrasing the pagans in west. Pagans retaliating. Muslims harrasing pagans and christians. Jews being suppressed and jews also suppressing others. One caste in India suppressing castes hostile to them. Example thevars subjugating dalits. Numerous others attacking and chopping the hands of innocent brahmins(during periyar temple episode). Portugeese and the casteless catholics suppressing and killing hindus in Goa. Muslims killing and raping hindus. Hindus killing muslims in Gujarat. Dalits hitting back at others.Phoolan devi for instance killed some higher caste members some of whom did not individually harm her or her community. Muslims suppressing traditional religion in Indonesia. Japanees harming the chineese during world war. Chineese doing the same against their enemies and tibetans. Why- Muslim brahmins of Kashmir were among the worst killer of hindu pandits out there. Some of the most fanatic pakistanis are rajputs. There also some people in tamil nadu who have attacked dalits but keep a periyar statue in their house- So much for bad mouthing brahmins. Then you have white americans who almost exterminated Red Indians of america
So dear friend if we look at the entire world all the communities have blood in their hands. Christian bible readers will like to say- True the entire world is sin ridden. Though I am not a christian, I wont totally deny this but my understanding is on a different plance. Then further these christians would say the best solution is to follow the path laid by Jesus to forgive people if they repent. I wont deny this either.
Anyway, coming back to the point why dont you see the Good everywhere rather than just the evil.
Those brahmins who rebuked case and followed a principle of universal brotherhood. Do you know that there were some brahmins(but are still hindus) in Punjab who travelled all the way to mecca to fight for the cause of the Prophet Mohammed! That there are dalits who have been great friends of brahmins and some of whom became spiritual leaders and respected by people of all castes. That there were christians who supported the cause of hinduism. That some hindus have paid glowing tributes to Islam and christianity. That some non brahmins(both men and women) have married with brahmins and lead a blissfull and happy life. That there are jews who have supported muslims and even become muslims. That there are christians who risked their lives for the jews. That there are muslims who have been experts in hinduism and vedas. That there are brahmins who have married africans and there are white females who have married afro americans. That there are buddhists like Dalai Lama and some muslims who have been great friends with kanchi shankaracharya .That a namboodiri family willingly gifted their daughter to a muslim(who had become a hindu). I can go on.
You can read only the first list, forget about your community’s contribution and claim so and so were wicked. Thats what you have done and thats why you have written the way you have.
You could on the other hand read the second list and speak from a very neutral perspective.
I dont know abt this blog writer. But the main thing about the controversy is this- Government which is meant to be secular, should make sure that there is no violence anywhere. But it should not interfere in the way temples are managed and administered. If individuals feel that there is something wrong, collect legal proof and proceed legally. Dont storm temples. It also displays arrogance that one knows all about religion. Religions will reform under only a warm and friendly atmosphere.
Be positive befriend everyone . Be reasonable and people will also respond and change. Some wont and some will. The important thing is to be patient. Wonders are not created in a day. It takes years of hardwork to build them
Warm Regards
Arul
I thought you were talking from an ‘informed’ position just when I saw the mention of Sethu. So you think it is ‘brahminism’ at work. I would love you to substantiate this.
Also, please elaborate on when and how the brahmins from Karnataka and Andhra were brought during chola regime. Do you think there were no brahmins in Tamilnadu prior to that ?
Well, from when did the brahmin owned press stoked fundamentalism ? N Ram is a sworn atheist, and the Hindu supports the marxist opinion. Indian Express has a Christian Editor TJS George. Ananda Vikatan has so many Christian and Muslim reporters. So is Dinamalar. It is so pro Tamil that puts the kalagams to shame. They are prosperous in Tirupur , an OBC citadel.
For your kind info, many of the so called brahmins are themselves atheists, communists and they don’t match the analytical segregating brilliance of Arul.
I will post once you clarify the above.
Venkat
End of the day they have eyed Chidambaram temple. Our leaders will eye those points where they can get enough Vitamin. Example how they went behind Sri Sathya Saibaba for funds….
Second Amrithanandhamayi
Third and recent is Golden Temple (donno what reason he had to visit there)
It is like, if I see 100 Rs. in your pocket, I would make friend with you. And If I know you wont part with Rs. 50 to me, I would rake your brothers against you or would create confusion among yourselves.
Third rated political games…
To whoever discussed here, none of us know what was the social setup and what were there administration during those Chola or Pallava days. Yes of course, huge acres of lands were donated to the temples, and hence brahmins were happily chanting Vedas for the goodness of the world, without bowing to anyone.
Today, the way everyone talks, looks as if, priests of the temple are paid huge sums with Medical, LTA, Bonus, conveyance etc., Everyone thinks like that. Pls go and visit a few temples, where there is no fund to light even the lamp in the temple. I have seen priests, bringing oil from their homes to light the lamp make food at their homes, present it as Neivedhyam to the God at the temple after which only they eat.
In the same hindu temples, will anyone have guts to comment anything or change any systems inside Melmaruvathur temple or Golden temple or Shirdi Baba’s Ashrams??? Will anyone get into it and change their rituals????
Donno why they target one by one, only against the weaker section. I sincerely believe that Tsunami was the result of Kanchi Seer’s arrest only.
If you call me a fool I wouldnt mind be called so.
We all know that so called athiest leaders too go to the temple and worship and secretly visit astrologers. Our great leader has chose to chant “Gnayiru Potrudhum” (means ‘praise the Sun’ ), instead of saying “Namo Narayana” before starting his Yoga classes everyday. What big difference between Sun God and Narayanan, no body knows.
End of the day, when you dont beleive the religion, God and its culture, why should you poke nose inside which you dont have any concern?????
Will you suggest the same in Mosques to allow women inside? or to change the traditional rituals ??????
Sorry if am harsh.!!! but it hurts repeatedly!!!
My dear friend “apexpreci ”
What I had tried to do was broadly outline the contours of socio-economic-political-religious transformations that evolved over time with the involvement of various forces. I agree that many of points were terse and brief. But I want to tell you something. I am not saying anything new. Definitely what I’m talking here is ‘Greek’ or ‘Latin’ for ‘nutty techies’ like MR. Saravanan(I assume he is an ignoramus tehcie nut from whatever he has written…he lives in a fools’ paradise arguing that nobody can know what social setup was there in the past….wake up dude! then why r u claiming about the past if one cannot find out…don’t self-contradict..that shows why brahminized-minds can only work on shitty software support projects and can’t create any product of their own) who don’t understand ‘history’ or ‘politics’ or ’sociology’. Guys! stop talking or writing on social issues if you think it is not worth reading books on sociology, history or politics. Don’t form ur opinions by what Mr. Gurumurthy writes or what Burkha Dutt talks in ndtv.
Sorry for the digression. Let me clarify issues raised by our friend “apexpreci”.
Your first doubt:
———————–
[[Also, please elaborate on when and how the brahmins from Karnataka and Andhra were brought during chola regime. Do you think there were no brahmins in Tamilnadu prior to that ?]]
My Response:
———————
Yes! it is true that there were brahmin before that too in TN. Brahmins started coming to Tamil region right from Sangam age in small hordes. But they were looked on as ‘exotic’ and ‘novel’ people and also rare people. Thats why they were referred by ancient Tamils as “Ariyar” meaning ‘rare people’ which metamorphosed into ‘AAriyar’. Now I hope it makes things clear where from this term originated. But these small hordes of people slowly started getting patronage from Tamil Kings and Nobles who were always in constant warfare with each other. The ancient Tamil practice of offering sacrifice to ancestor heroes( there used to “Hero stones”..stones erected in honour of warriors who died for the sake of community..this practice in some or other form continues across Tamil region even today) sat well with brahminical practice of conducting “yagnas” to please their gods as they claimed it can give victories in war. But the most important aspect of this early brahmin migration to Tamil region was that they got assimilated with the traditional bardic community of Tamil society known as ‘Andanar’ who were also known as ‘Pulavar’ or ‘Saantror’. When old Tamil poems talk about ‘Andanar’ they mean this section of Tamil society. Now you can understand why most of Iyers and Iyengar who are Tamil Brahmins (they are different from Vedic brahmins..unlike vedic brahmins doing Santhya Vandanam or learning Vedas is not mandatory for Iyers n Iyengars get moksha) are not as fair as they are mythologized to be. Most tam-brahms are as brown or as dark as any other Tamil. Only a small percentage is ‘fair’ or ‘vellai’ like S.V.Sekar or N.Ram. It is also a fact that even brown people get some kind of ‘glow’ in their skin when they eat ‘ghee’ and other nutritious food all the time and don’t do physical labour under burning sun for generations…that much for their ‘beauty’ n ‘fairness’. The point is, pre-chola period brahmins were actually a Tamil community with little Aryan mix who had adopted some Aryan ritual practices. But Chola empire changed all this. As Chola supremacy spread into Telugu and Kannada regions(infact, Telugu and Kannada languages and identities had not even formed or taken proper shape by then in late ninth and tenth centuries) along with their spoils of gold and silver they brought Vedic Brahmins who were dominant in those regions and who had not assimilated much with the local populations. Later during Nayaka period dominance of Telugu brahmins became atrocious and later Marathi brahmins also joined this crowd when Marathi Bhonsles captured Tanjore. One can notice that of all the “Carnatic Thinmurthis” not a single one is Tambram and all of them composed their songs only in Telugu or Sanskrit. So, the question is when did Tambrams got to the top of all of them and get radicalized and “fundamentalized”. All these happened with the advent of British Colonialism and European intervention. While Macaulay’s education system targeted to recruit brahmins clerks into colonial administration was taking place Aryan supremacists like “Dr.Annie Besant” were radicalizing Madras Brahmins in a big way in an attempt to turn them against English rulers as she wanted to weaken English power back home in U.K so that her Irish homeland can get independence. Annie Besant and Theosophical movement did more to Tambrams than what Arya Samaj and Brahma Samaj did to Bengali Brahmins. It made them to adopt and reap the benefits of modernity and its institutions and at the same time to take pride in their stinking traditions. Instead of weakening traditional exploitative and discriminatory systems like caste this “hybrid modernity”- an unholy alliance of modernity and traditions reinforced it and helped the upper caste/class elite especially brahmins to isolate themselves and imagine and invent themselves as ‘Unique’ ‘Genetically superior’ people. To this day all brahmins are suffering from this kind of a ‘psychological disease’ and making the Indian society to suffer because of them.
Your second doubt:
—————————
[[Well, from when did the brahmin owned press stoked fundamentalism ? N Ram is a sworn atheist, and the Hindu supports the marxist opinion. Indian Express has a Christian Editor TJS George. Ananda Vikatan has so many Christian and Muslim reporters. So is Dinamalar. It is so pro Tamil that puts the kalagams to shame. They are prosperous in Tirupur , an OBC citadel.
For your kind info, many of the so called brahmins are themselves atheists, communists and they don’t match the analytical segregating brilliance of Arul]]
My Response:
———————-
Either your above comments are just to provoke me or that you are really a ‘naive’ and gullible reader of newspapers and observer of politics. I find it funny when you say atheist brahmins cannot be stoking fundamentalism. For your kind info, Savarkar was an atheists n so were many leading illuminaries of RSS. Casteism or insensitivity to the realities of oppressive caste system and failure to recognize the need to abolish it is an religion in itself to which all those ‘atheist brahmins you referred to are firm adherents. N.Ram is running an institute called “Asian College of Journalism” in Chennai and churning out only “Brahmin journalists” especially girls every year. You can cross verify the facts if you are honest about finding out the facts. This is what India’s atheist communist brahmins do in practice. They take to Marxism only to find intellectual and ideological justification to sideline the issue of addressing the ‘caste problem’ in India. Will you be surprised if I say you that until recently ‘Indian Communists’ (most of whom are brahmins who make it a point to make headlines everyday expressing their concern for the poor and the working class ) refused to acknowledge the open secret that caste exists in India discriminatory practices based on it are everyday reality from IITs to remote villages. All rhetoric about “class struggle” is only a camouflage to evade addressing “caste struggle”.
You may ask me that my explanation can not explain your question regarding “TJS George”. I am not sure whether you know the fact that Mr. George belongs to the Syrian Christian community who claim themselves as “Namboodiri” brahmin converts. It is common for Syrian christians to marry among fellow hindu brahmins rather than with fellow Christians from other castes. They are so casteist that when the Crown of Travancore announced that people from a religion cannot be discriminated in their place of worship based on their caste for entry it is not Hindu brahmins or Varmas or Nairs who rioted against the ruling, but it was Syrian Christians who violently responded first and started attacking lower christians asking “how dare they think they can enter the church where they pray”…..this much for our beloved Syrian Christian racists”. You can find ‘n’ number of Syrian Christian websites both of the community as well as families all of which announce in bold letters with pride about their “Brahmin” blood. Frined, I have another info for you. Our country’s beloved George Fernandes comes from ‘Mangalore’ region hailing from the community of ‘Konkani Christians’. Interestingly they also trace their origins to Marathi Saraswat brahmins.
As far as your argument that “Ananda Vikatan has many christian and muslim reporters is concerned” I would only say that it shows ur utter immaturity in understanding anything serious or complex. Some grey matter is required to understand as far as these things are concerned…it is like arguing that BJP is a Muslim-loving party because Muktar Abbas Naqvi is their spokesman. I don’t know which you live in to argue that ‘Dinamalar’ is pro-Tamil. They should be idiots to write against Tamil or Tamils in a Tamil paper published in TN. Probably you read their series of articles where they narrated how their heroic founder “Rama Subbu Iyer” and Dinamalar faced lot of persecutions from Malayalees in their struggle for annexing Kanyakumari district with Tamilnadu. You should know the fact that ‘Pattars’ as Tambrams are referred by Mallus are hated a lot by Mallus including Mallu brahmins as they see them as outsider who came and monopolized all adminstrative positions during colonial period and especially due to Sir. C.P.Ramasamy Iyer who was the ‘Diwan’ of Princely State of Travancore’ meaning he was the British representative to Travancore. C.P.R. Iyer was literally a terror for all Mallus who treated Travancore royalty like shit and ruled Travancore like a despot. He even tried to secede Travancore from Indian Union and announce it as a separate country ruled by him before being overpowered by Indian Army. Of course the climate against the Iyers were very hostile in Trivandrum and it is not surprising that they were persecuted by then Kerala government. Dinamalar is cunning enough to sell their story as one of fight for Tamil spirit…kudos to them. Apart from that, you need an analytical eye to understand how their news content including their stories in “Siruvar Malar” and content in “Anmeegam Arivoma” are laced with the subtle slow poison of promoting brahminism and in the long run create a conductive atmosphere for the flourishing of RSS fundamentalism. They know the weaknesses in Tamil society very well. First they will sell “Thunukku Mootai” and “Aanmeegam” then will follow hardcore fundamentalism.
I hope I have answered your questions at least to some extent. Actually I have more important things to do than sitting and explaining abcd of TN history n politics to people who are lazy to read books and only interested in posting what they heard here and there from SuNa.Swamy or Ramagopalan. So please read something or collect some facts yourself and apply some mind to analyze before you respond.
Wah Arul
Now I see your burden of ignorance emptied on the internet. Now I think you are ready for some real education.
1. Brahmin or Anthanar have a long history than your cursory search has reached. It existed before Appar, in fact much much before. Brahminism or Vedism was the religion in this zone. Tholkappiar is, (alas) a brahmin. “indirane Salun kari” (Thirukkural 2-5) is a small example. I do not want to go much beyond this lest I have to explain the entire Vedic personalities to you.
2. Arya- is meant as noble my friend. (not ariya or rare). If your selective search had taken you only to where Veeramani and EVR had pointed out, try this. Look up at Thiruvasagam. (10 the cent). Look at Devaram (4 to 6 th cent). Gnana Sambandar, and his forefathers were well settled in the area for centuries. The Tamil Ayyar was a mark of respect, (as in Ayya) since most Brahmins were teachers.
3. The Tamil Sivachariars or Kurukkal as they are called were once called Adi Saivas. Sundarar belonged to such a tribe. They are Saiva Agama followers and teachers who trace their lineage to the Saiva Agamas which are Just after Mahabharata Times. The Agamas originated in Tamilnadu and were in Sanskrit. The Tamil people developed the grantha lipi to write Sanskrit which is still in vogue.
Thiruvalluvar’s ‘Kolil Poriyil Gunamilave Engunathhan thalai Vanangath thalai’- In this the engunathan (eight virtued) is a saiva Agamic concept as elaborated by Parimelalagar, who is himself a Vaishnavite. Saiva Agamas predated Thiruvalluvar by at least a millennium.
4. And does Mr Arul Know that ayyangars are Vaishnavites ? Vaishnavism as a regular religion came into vogue around 1 st or 2 nd cent AD in Tamilnadu. In the north it started after Mahabharata – read the puranas and Bhagavatam. The first three alwars of around 6 th cent AD are also brahmins , but they were not ayyangars. Ayyangars or Pattars also read Vaishnava Agamas by name Vaikanasa and Pancharatra.
5. Arul, I will consider it sensational if you can give literary proof that Pulavar – sanror and Anthanar are same in later Sangam literature.
6. Arul, first understand that spirituality (mind you , I am not talking of religion. Religion and spirituality are one and the same with those semitic rubbishianities) as practiced in India, revolves around Vedic Gods. Once you pray any God the automatic linkage to Vedism happens. If you call Vedism as brahminism, God save you. If, for this reason, you find fault with Dinamalar with lacing religious (?) stuff along with spiritual articles, what can one say about your tangential view ?
If devotional articles are pro RSS, I am a true RSS man 9 The ranks of RSS have swelled this moment , courtesy Arul). If you can prove that atheism has no place in Hinduism , then Savarkar is a nobody in Sanatana Dharmic culture.
7. I know that a few (yes, only a few) became landlords with the largesse of Chola kings. But there is another side to it. Most of the ministers in those days and their parivaram were either brahmins or the Pillais. It is no secret that they were affluent. Aniruddha brahmarayar , was the prime minister in RajaRaja’s court. But the rest of the brahmins, almost more than 95 % were teachers. They were the ones who ran all the Gurukulams exclusively. If you have doubts, please read Dharam Pal’s books are better, as some genuine Tamil scholar.
It is a pity that people like you are falling prey to the braisnwash of the old jackals of Justice party turned DK turned DMK. The same people, who criticise the brahmins remain silent when someone mentions about the butcher Francis Xavier murdered thousands in Goa. But that is ‘Pagutharivu’. They stoutly deny untouchability when even a OBC child is perfectly trained in ways to ‘correctly’ handle a Harijan.
Now, to come to the topic of this post: The TN government has no locus standi in Chidambaram temple. The temple is owned by Dixitars. Next, Mk has no right to talk about theism. Only people who know thevaram and know what it stands for can talk. All this nonsense is state sponsored aggression.
Venkat
Good explanation venkat..
Arul.. its entirely shame on us to denigrate our own culture and tradition.. an american, although his forefathers destroyed red-indians, will never talk ill of them or his country.
An australian still shows racism towards the aborigines.. the apology has to be forcefully brought from them, and not as sign of realisation.. they still keep aborigines from many walks of their country.. yet no single australian critizises his country..
The britishers, till now have never apologized for jallianwala bagh or their killing of around 2 crore people in india.. do you know why.. its because of people like you, they are hiding behind..
Arul,
regarding your accusations of monopolisation of iyers during british rule, you have to accuse the britishers of the partiality, and not the iyers..
Also, a broad minded view of our history will reveal facts..
The brahmins were predominantly priests and gurus before britishers conquest. The brahmins lived vegetarian life, with high disciplines, and with utmost sacrifise. A brahmin is banned from lot of things, like accumulating wealth, selling foods, telling lies etc. That’s why, any violence on them is considered as more sinful than other people..
The country is ruled by kshatriyas, who controlled everything.. (Mind.. its not brahmins)..
Many of present day BC’s and MBC’s are earlier rulers.. vanniars, devars, nadars, nayakkars are all ruling class people, just before britishers.. maruthu pandiar belong to devar community, and kattabomman belong to nayakkars..
Deeran sinna malai belong to gounder caste.. like wise, poolidevan and other initial fighters..
But now, these communities are all in BC and MBC status..
Who brought them to such low status..?
Also, who classified our people as dalits, SC’s and ST’s ? Its the britishers, to drive the wedge b/w different sections of our people..
So, after british conquest, they suppressed all other communities and promoted only brahmin class in government positions.. and later, they played the dirty game of brahminism and successfully projected an image like brahmins suppressed all other people, while the real suppressors are the britishers.
Now the question is “Will you ever understand and accept this fact?” .. Having accepted, will you ever develop guts to ask the britishers to tender an apology? or atleat to make them accountable for their historic atrocities on us?
Today, we are powerful enough to ask such an apology.. but, we are lacking the mental strength.. still people like you stick to the good old lies of DK’s and marxists, who uleashed mountains of lies on our society and culture..
read dharampal’s book from http://www.dharampal.net
Hello Senthil,
Don’t take sides in the name of culture and tradition and hide our mistakes. There are Americans or Australians who feel sorry for what their fore fathers did. When there is something wrong, we need to correct it now otherwise we end up following it in the name of culture and tradition. If you are ardent fan of culture and tradition, you will be wearing dhoti, having tuft, wearing ear rings etc, I strongly guess you are not like that. Culture and tradition were formed for the benefits of people it has to be evaluated on timely basis and need to be changed. For example wearing mangal sutra is not in Hindu culture till 12th century, burning camphor’s (petroleum product) is only for last 50, 60yrs.
Coming back to the chidambaran temple issues, why dikshitars are only allowed to sing devaram in “kanakasabai”, why not others. Why only dikshitars are allowed to be a priest in the chidambaram temple, why can’t I or my son do that profession/service whatever you call it. If I/my son want to be dikshitar is there a way? Can we convert our caste or change our life style to become dikshitar? Unfortunately, even sankaracharya performs ceremonies to get converted from different religion to hinduism, but doesn’t allow lower caste people to become higher caste. Making assumption, that to become dikshitar the only way is by birth, then fault is on God for giving us a lower caste status and not allowing us to sing in kanakasabai. Author was asking are we in free India? Im asking her the same question, are we in free India. why brahmins/iyers/dikshitars are given free access to touch idols(so called GOD) in temples, why not other people what makes them so special. Why we need a mediators(priest) to even pray to God in my own language.
It is not British who divided us in the name of caste, we were already divided by our fore fathers and we are following it in the name of culture and tradition
. As I said, we should revisit all our so called traditions and see whether it is worthwhile to follow in this age.
P.S: I happened to go to chidambaram temple, it is a rip off(Most of the temples). Dikshitar’s does more marketing than praying to God. If you pay 200rs you will be allowed to go one level inside the karpagirhagam, will be garlanded and given special privilege (even you are a criminal). They will convince you to send the prasatham’s through postal and send you a small packet of vipoothi for 360rs/yr. They will make sure to visit your home ( I was in chennai ), give you prasatham and demand money. Im not overstating any information, this happend to me 4 years back.
Thanks
Yogi
Dear Yogi.. Thanks for your comment.. i agree with many of your points. .. however, i differ you with core points..
/** There are Americans or Australians who feel sorry for what their fore fathers did. **/
I agree to you.. but how many of them are abusing their country, religion or society?
Also, how many of those who are in power structure, feel the same.. Clearly, they are not ready to get bogged down for their past.. they want to pass through this issue with dignity..
Please compare with how our people bash on our society..
Culture and tradition… i dont wear dhotis or kuras.. i agree.. its because of my profession.. But, why should it prevent me from learning and embracing my culture..
Culture is not a business process to get changed.. Its a soul of a society or community.. a culture can only evolve..
The church has 2000 years of tradition.. can you go and change that rule, and in turn demand appointment of women as priests? you would never even think of it..
But when it comes to hinduism, you want everything to be changed.. why?.. the underlying fact is that you are convinced that everything in Hinduism is backward or outdated.. is this not a self deprecation & self negativism..
I dont believe in those.. tradition and culture are the ones to be inherited..
Regarding Chidambaram Dikshithars, although i havent visited to that temple, many people told what you have mentioned..
Again, i want to approach this issue proactively .. why do they do that, and what are their constraints.. with lacking of governmental support, how do they generate resources for maintaining that temple..
Next to your question of why kanagabai is restricted only to dikshithars.. i think, its a silly question.. its the honour given to those dikshithar community.. i hope, you would agree that honour is a special thing to a particular person or organisation..
In this case, the right to sing in kanagasabhai is accorded exclusively to them because they dedicate their own life for learning agamas and to maintain the temple..
Secondly, this temple belongs to them.. and i hope, you would not let everyone to cook in your house kitchen.. kanagasabhai means more to those dikshithars..
Also, the question of brahminism doesnot apply to this issue.. because, even normal brahmins do not have the right to conduct poojas.. its exclusive right to dikshithars..
If you say “Why not me to conduct pooja”, i will say “You dont have the quality to do that as prescribed by the agamic rules”..
The issue of tamil also is not relevant.. because the dikshithars themselves recite devarams daily..
I dont know what ideology you belong to.. but, if you really understood Hinduism, and the modes of rituals and practices, you will never be in conflict with it..
The vested interests want to create issue to destroy the holyness of each hindu entity.. i request you not to go with them..
Well Senthil the name ARUL gives the game away. The TORTURE INSTRUMENT AND HANGING JEW WORSHIPPERS. No doubt does not want to discuss Foreign History, because it is full of Cross wearing Barbarian savage hordes butchering 2000 million people and wiping off Celtic, Druid, Maya, Inca, Aztec, Sumerian, Jews civilizations looting Africa, South America (where still a miniscule white minority, backed by head of Murder Inc. the present Nazi pig of Pope and his paedophile fathers, forcing him to apologise for child abuse) etc. taking the wealth of Natives and enslaving them, while giving them steel torture instrument replica and a story book called BIB-LIE.
SO ALL THE LIES ABOUT BRAHMINS COMING FROM KARNATAKA, ANDHRA ET-AL, BECAUSE THESE “CROSS” CROOKS AND THEIR BASTARD CROSS PRODUCTS THE DRAVIDAR KAZAGAM FOOLS WANT TO STICK TO THAT “LIES”
BY THE WAY WHERE DID THE GRANDSIRE OF DRAVIDER MOVEMENT “PERIYAR” COME FROM WAS IT NOT KARNATAKA????
Dear Hindus,
If unity is not with us then these worms will be a problem in future to be face.
Please unity your and our self and make a wave so that these worms must whipped out completely.
Dear Anti-Hindus, Please go back to indian independence.
Why we fought for idependence?. These foreign bastards how they divided india in name of religion and caste, truth is known to all and dont post non sense comments here.
Culture and tradition… i dont wear dhotis or kuras.. i agree.. its because of my profession..
you are ashamed to wear dhoti and kurtas in your professional life? What king of hindu are you?
But when it comes to hinduism, you want everything to be changed.. why?
..as years passed Hinduism has evolved. the next evolution would be to banish the caste system.
To apexpreci and others,
It is not ‘Devaram’. It is ‘Thevaram’.
To Arul,
It seems you consider only non-brahmins as Tamils. It shows your ignorance/arrogance. Sage Agatthiar is considered to be the first person to write a grammar for Tamil. It was called Agatthiam. Tholkappiar was his student. He wrote Tholkappiam based on Agatthiam. Agatthiar was a brahmin. He lived in Podhigai malai, from where I am now typing this comment.
U.V.Saminatha Iyer was the person who devoted his entire life for the cause of collecting the Tamil epics Cheevaka Chinthamani, Silappadikaram and Manimekalai, and numerous Tamil literature. Without him we could not talk in length about the chastity of Kannagi.
Mahakavi Subramanya Bharathi was a brahmin.
With due respect to Periyar, I would like to say that it is indeed funny, when the followers of E.V. Ramaswamy Naickker, who is originally from the land of Chalukyas (outside Tamilnadu) denigrate tamil brahmins as non-tamils. I respect him for his stance against casteism and for his support for alcohol prohibition and Vaikkam struggle to let the so called lower castes into temple to worship. But he is a non-Tamil and it cannot be denied. My kind advice to atheists is, follow your principle properly. If you don’t believe in God, why bother about who runs temples? The fools who donate to temples will take care of its administration. You better take care of propagating your ideology.
- A Pure Tamil Non-Brahmin
Dear Hindu s
I am from the town Where the entire incident is taking place. All of us know why this is happening and what is happening.
1. All of you must understand ‘TAMIL’ is not at all boycotted here in this temple and we know that in all the 6 times poojas performed daily, devaram is recited regularly. This is true and all the local lads know this.
2. Harijans are not prohibited in from entering into the temple. In fact turning back to the history, Periyar’s ‘temple entry movement’ throughout Tamilnadu to allow Harijans into the temple was not conducted in Chidambaram.
3. People say that the Southern entrance the temple was closed since Nadanar( An Harijan devotee)entered into the temple through that entrance. That incident took place not at Chidambaram and it took place at Thriupungore near Vaitheswaran kovil.
4. In fact all the Hindu’s must know that this one of the few temples in Tamilnadu where 6 times Pooja is performed daily with the help of various trusts and donations.
There are few local politicians and ex ministers who are interested in getting into the temple administration which is now with Deekshithars.
They want to replace old un valuable jewels of Nataraja Temple. All the people in Tamilnadu knows this and the Politicans have done this in Thiruchendore temple and in many of the temples. The ‘Maragathalingam’ from the temple of ‘Thriukuvalai’ the birth place of Present C.M was stolen already. I can quote many like this.
There were quite handful of mistakes that the Deekshithars have been doing for the past 10 years around.
1. Some of the young people from Deekshithars group start using the temple for illegal activities. ( including drinking)
2. some of thee young deekshithars donot behave properly with the public and they frequently indulge in quarrel for small reasons.
3.Many of them started saying that they are the owner’s of the temple.
4.Finlay, since many of the trusts which were giving their donations for conducting regular pooja stooped their aid. These people take donation from outsiders for conducing them. In the process, some of them started getting money for conducting some special poojas like ‘Ruthrabisekam’ and so. They get plenty of money. So they started neglecting the local people. That is the reason why there is no adequate support from local people. These donations also improved their social status and since they got surplus money some of them started misusing it.
5. When the administrative group of the Deekshithars take action against the Deekshithars who misbehaved and misused in the temple premises, the actions were zeroed down by the above said local politicians who supported the misbehaved/misused Deekshithars and divided them into different groups.
6. You must know one thing. Arumugaswamy so called the hero of this entire incident is not a local person. He won’t recite devaram or thiruvasagam regularly that is usually done in all the 6 times pooja ( earlier & now)
So,every one in Chidambaram is interested in saving the temple from both the group. Many of us do not find any problem in going to the temple and performing our pooja.
I am a non-brahmin and going regularly to the Nataraja temple.
I can Suggest one thing to the government, if the government is interested in taking over temples of tamilnadu, let them also take over Nagore Dargha and Velankanni Church and rename the ‘ Hindu Religious board’ as ‘ Religious board of Tamilnadu’
Hai all
Pl read this link or ‘Thalaiyangam’ on 2/2/09 ‘Dinamalar’
http://www.dinamani.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=DNE20090210120618&Title=Editorial&lTitle=R%FBXVeLm&Topic=0&ndate=2/12/2009&dName=No+Title&Dist=
This is what we the chidambaram people are worrying about
Raja GM
periyar has said that tamil is a kattu mirandi bhashai(TAMIL IS A LANGUAGE OF BARBARIANS)CAN ANY ONE DENY THIS FACT?
I am a regular visitor of the chidambaram temple and an ardent devotee of the lord. It is really painful to see so much of fighting going on over the temple.
As a common man visiting the temple I found a few facts puzzling about the temple administration.
1) If one had to perform archana one had to pay Rs.50/- to go to the ‘chitrambala maedai’ and also see the chidambara ragasiyam. So if you are going with a family, you had to shell out a big amount to perform archana.
2) In each of the shrines, if you stop for more than a few seconds, the dokshidars would start canvassing to you to enroll as a member and pay money sot aht they will send prasadam periodically. This is unheard of in any of the temples, and clearly distracts the attention from worshipping. One wonders if this is a temple or a MNC marketing desk.
Both these practices have not helped the dikshidars earn public opinion.
Recently, aftert the govts. bid to take over the temple, item(1) has changed. Everone who wants to perform archana is allowed to go to the chitrambala maedai without any fee. This is very much welcome. But why did the dikshidars not do this all these days. Are they doing it because of pressure from public and govt. ?
The practise in item(2) is sadly continuing.
You say, “…..and they were given this right for thousands of years.”
Do not keep quoting authority from gods and saints. Allow people to think and enquire both within and without. That is the principle of vedanta. Reading volumes of Vivekananda would be helpful for people of this kind of groups.
Even Vivekananda has become so vexed with the way the santhana dharma was spoiled by the groups belonging to this kind of groups.
Just about 50 years ago the same types of groups claimed that the right to education and learning of youngsters was given only to these groups by god and other saints thousands of years ago. Most others were snadlas, neechas, sudhras and whatever.
It is only after Kamarajar, EVR and Anna the education of children was opened for everyone. Now the playing field is somewhat levelled.
How did these groups come to have control over this temple?
Anyway, I will leave it at that, for want of decency.
Mr RGSmith,
Do you say, that all non-brahmins in tamilnadu were illiterate before kamarajar? Just check with many of the old people (of their 70s and 80s) how they know to count and read?
You cannot fool the public with distorted history for ever..
There are enough documentation available in the british archivals, that we had more than 1 lakh village schools in madras presidency alone.. and majority of the students were non-brahmins, and the majority of the teachers were brahmins.
While you are commenting on the particular type of groups, it would better to comment on another type of groups, which operate at the world level, and whose sole aim is to destroy each and every culture in this world..
And it is the very same group, which through their proxy, is attempting to collapse the functioning of the chidambaram temple..
Please read this. Inculturation gone extreme!
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=9043&SKIN=B
Video of Xian pastor claiming Tiruvalluvar as a Xian saint
http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2009/08/video-of-xian-pastor-claiming.html
Dear Friends,
Lets forget all our anger and stop blaming each other’s community. There is nothing called a community-It is in our mind.
You can list a 100 reasons why individuals have been behaving badly. Though it is sad that european imperialists destroyed africa, it is also true that post imperialism africans have been killing each other.
Genetics have prove that all humans are related and finally come from a single sourve of parents.Be it adam or Manu or whatever you want to call that person from whom all of us come from.
Let me explain some genetics which puts this matter to rest.
F1(Father ) + M1(Mother) – Parents of a whole group. Most indians have atleast M1 common or F1 common. Now F1 + M1 had F1S1,F1S2 and F1D1 and F1D2. After a few generations the descendants of F1S1 some of whom even married descendants of F1D1 formed a new community. Similarly. some other descendants of F1S1 and F1D1 or F1D2 married and formed a different community.
Now no matter what these people still retain that original DNA matter directly traceable to F1 or M1. It is just mutation recombination, mutation and recombination the whole repetiton of splitting of communities and coming nack together again. This can be easily evidenced. When some brahmins are fair they seem to look very different from surrounding non brahmins. But when their children are dark, they look no different from others. All this inspite of the fact that a fair and dark brahmin can be born to same parent.
Further practical evidence. Mr X is a kashmiri pundit, Mr Y is a kashmir muslim. They look alike and both share same surname. Now Mr x, decided to marry a more dark UP Brahmin K(because of caste and religion). Mr Y on the other hand married W. Now some of W’s ancestors can be traced to people who mixed with central asians (again because of religion). So xK ( the children of x and K) have different genes from YW. In course of a few centuries XK descendants intermarried with a whole lot of delhites having settles there(punjabis,up, haryana,gujarat and rajasthan, south indians). YW intermarried a with a lot of muslims after settling in pakistan(punjabis again,up muslims,haryana muslims, sindis-close to gujaratis) etc. Now some of XK’s descendant settled in London and so did YK . With all these intermarriages somewhere some of their descendants remarried . Now tell me are the descendants of X and Y after a 1000 years. In this particular case , because of Modern times they have distributed across the Globe. Imagine the situation if they continued to live only in Kashmir. Some bulb will ask, but in ancient India , they did not intermarry between castes. Dear Bulb , what you say is only partially true.
We all know that Manu allows people of higher castes to take women from lower castes. In between,some sudra because of good connections becomes a vaishya. Meanwhile some unlucky brahmin gets chucked out and is converted to sudra for heresy. Some other brahmins become warriors and end up as kshatriyas and marry only kingly families. But these kingly families are flooded with people who become kings by right-some are crypto sudras, some are crypto brahmins and both of them intermarry because of equal status). Now some brahmins spread their progeny among low castes via illicit relationship and create sons(Full fledged fully inheritable Y chromozomes). And these sons have sons and daughters who marry even lower castes in different legal and illegal ways. Some of the daughters by Manu’s rule move up the social ladder. Now really speaking in a particular local area, with all this happening is there a difference in castes after a few thousand years. Meantime people also migrate. A punjabi(very different from UP) comes to UP and setlles down there and is placed somewhere in the caste system. Over a 1000 years his culture loses its punjabi touch and becomes fully uttar pradeshi. Now this uttar pradeshi descendant will rather marry his children to a similar person of a differnt subcaste(meaning different origin) of UP than a punjabi(who have changed over the 1000 years). So now even punjabi blood is in UP.
Look at ths funny situation.In kerala- Not all namboothiris had sons and daughters who could be called namboothiris because of sambandham.Whereas all children of nairs were nairs. Now result nairs have a richer and more widespread namboothiri blood in their genes than namboothiris themselves. Result- An average Nair is more fair than an avergae Namboodiri. The story goes on.
So lets cool of and focus only on the primary issue- should government interfere in temples are not. Please leave caste out of it.With goodwill among people reforms are easier. So reform in the temple is something government better not interfere. It can be a facilitator, but once they get involved the givernment can no longer call itself neutral