Conversion destroys religious harmony – By SWAMI DAYANANDA SARASWATHI

This is an article written in New Indian Express. As this is not available in any of the internet links, i am providing it as it is, as i received it through mail.

About Swami dayanand Saraswathi:

Although, no introduction is needed for him, let me share what i know. He is one of the vedantic scholars in india, and runs dedicated calsses on vedanta in his ashram at Pennsylvania and in his Indian ashram at Coimbatore (Arsha Vidya Gurukulam, anaikatty hills), and in his Uttaranchal ashram.

I visited his coimbatore ashram twice, and it was one of the peaceful and splendid place, with moderate climate through out the year. There is a shiva temple and a murugan temple, and a lot of foreigners are seen learning vedas there.

Once i saw a young lady, with her naughty small kid (around 6 years) , chanting Om Namashivaya, in the murugan temple there. And i had an opportunity, to help an old american lady, who changed her name to “Vilasa Chaitanya”, in fixing a font related to sanskrit.  She was doing some research on vedantic philosophies, and hence may require sanskrit font for citing various sanskrit slokas.

The ashram is open to all, and in every sundays they provide annadhanams. (I used to have a short trip to anaikatty, enjoying the nature, and land in the ashram for breakfast. and then have a peaceful time, and then have the lunch and return back. Food attracts a lot :) )

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Below is the article written by swamiji, in New Indian Express on jan-21, 2007 . As usual, i have marked key paragraphs in blue color which i would like to highlight.By SWAMI DAYANANDA SARASWATHI

Monday, January 21
The New Indian Express
Hyderabad

“THERE are Christian theologians who feel the conversion of others is
not any more the business of the Church.” This is indeed an
encouraging statement from Dr Hans Ucko, Head of the Committee on
Inter-religious Dialogue and Cooperation of the World Council of
Churches, a powerful body that has over 350 member churches. This
statement has the potential to promote harmony among religions,
particularly between Christianity on the one hand and its two main
targets: Hinduism and Buddhism, on the other. Dr Ucko, as I know him,
is an upright, outspoken gentleman. Personally he has “never been
interested in converting people”. But, on the ground, the situation
presents a total contrast. Christian missionaries, almost without
exception, work with unabated zeal to convert. The conciliatory words
of Dr Ucko ,seem to conflict with what he says next. While
underplaying the conversion agenda, Dr Ucko also makes this seemingly
innocuous, but profoundly theological, statement: “I believe it is
more important for us to bear witness to Christ by our action of
caring for people without any ulterior motive and by our exemplary
living.” Here is the clue to the potential for disharmony.

Christians, regardless of their denomination, are mandated by their
theology to ‘bear witness to Christ’ which, in simple terms, means
sharing the faith with a stranger. Why share the faith with a
stranger? The vast majority of Christian believers are firmly
convinced that unless a person ‘accepts Christ as his saviour’, he is,
at the very least, denied entry to Heaven.
More extreme, but not less
common, believers are convinced that he will definitely go to Hell -
and forever. So, given the theological compulsion to share the faith
with a stranger, a serious Christian has no option except to exert and
’save’ the person, inevitably a non-Christian, from such a fate. That
is to say convert him to Christianity. See the effect. Obviously the
theological belief that no faith other than Christianity can guarantee
salvation, or that other faiths can only lead to Hell, cannot amount
to honouring non-Christian religions. Can a Christian, who believes
this, view a non-Christian religion as anything but inferior or, as is
often the case, dangerous? So in the innocuous mandate to ‘bear
witness’ to Christ inheres the denigration of the religion of the
‘other’, if not explicitly, certainly implicitly. Herein lies
concealed the propensity and the potential for disharmony, for, when
one’s religion is denigrated a great violence is done to what one
holds most dear.

Older traditions, in contrast, do not believe in conversion. A Jewish
person is born of a Jewish mother. A Zoroastrian is born of
Zoroastrian parents. A Hindu is born of Hindu parents. And so are the
followers of Shintoism, Taoism and other ancient religious groups all
over the world.
They acquire their religions by birth. They do not
convert anybody to their faith. Hindus stand as an example of how this
approach protects ‘other faiths’, not denigrate them. When the
persecuted Zoroastrians, the Parsis, came here as refugees driven from
Persia, they were received here as “Athithis” and were helped to
settle in India. Identical was the case with the Jews. This is what a
booklet “Indian Jews in Israel” [edited and published by Reuven Dafai,
Consul, on behalf of the Consulate of Israel, 50 Pedder Road, Cumballa
Hill, Bombay 26] says: “While most of the others came to Israel driven
by persecution, discrimination, murder and other attempts at total
genocide, the Jews of India came because of their desire to
participate in the building of the Third Jewish Common Wealth their
long sojourn in India, nowhere and at no time were they subjected to
intolerance, discrimination and persecution”
. The Parsis and the Jews,
protected thus, saved their religion and lived by it. The Hindus
protected the early Christians and Muslims too. Our vision of God
compels us to do that. We accept various forms of worship, prayers and
Gods; one more really does not matter to us.

In contrast, in the other category of religions, mandated by their
theology to convert, their followers practise conversion with
conviction. Undoubtedly, they have a right to believe that unless one
is a Christian, one will not go to Heaven. But to claim the right to
go further and exert influence to turn all non-Christians into
Christians to make them eligible to enter Heaven cannot but promote
conflict.
Dr Ucko identifies the “key issue that haunts people opposed
to conversion” as what he calls “aid-evangelism” – a euphemism for
conversion by “allurement” or “fraudulent means.”

The key issue is not this, but the very assumption underlying the
impulse to convert. Today we stand at a precarious juncture in world
history, where a wide range of factors including monoculture, nuclear
warfare, and ecological disasters threaten our survival as a human
race. As never before, we stand in need of the rich knowledge base of
various indigenous traditions. We stand in need of diversity,
ecological diversity, bin-diversity, and religious-diversity . We stand
in need of understanding hoiv to live peacefully with one another,
without destroying one another, and our environment. While our need is
diversity, conversion endangers all diversities, not just religious.
Conversion comes at the cost of extermination of native people’s
cultural diversity and way of living
. Without preserving as they are,
the existing religious traditions and the people that practised them,
we cannot access these knowledge-bases that contain the lessons of
harmonious co-existence.

I would unhesitatingly call the Jewish, the Zoroastrian and the Hindu
traditions as non-aggressive traditions for just this reason: they do
not convert. Conversion uproots individuals, devastates families,
creates discord in communities and destroys ancient cultures.
This is
what we have been arguing for several years. We need all cultures, and
therefore all religions. With the destruction of religion comes the
destruction of culture. Our religion and culture are intertwined. The
religion has gone into the fabric of the culture. When I say ‘Namaste’
to you, it is culture. It is religion. When you are doing rangoli, it
is religion; it is culture.
There is a vision behind all that. Every
form of culture is connected to religion and religion itself is rooted
in spiritual wisdom. As spiritual tradition informs all aspects of
life, there is no cultural form or expression unconnected to religion.
Destruction of culture is destruction of religion. Destruction of
religion is destruction of culture. If this destruction is not
violence, what else is violence?
Aggression need not be physical. It
need not be the Kargil type. There are a varieties of aggression. You
can either be emotionally, economically or verbally aggressive. But,
the worst aggression, more than physical aggression, is cultural
aggression or religious aggression. That is why we say ‘Conversion is
Violence’. It is the deepest and most profound violence.

To overcome this violence we need to think of conflict avoidance and
conflict resolution. Conflict avoidance implies the abstention from
propaganda for conversion as that is the major cause of violence.
Conflict resolution demands that the conflict-prone faiths and
civilisations understand the need to internalise the acceptance of
others’ view of God. Here is where the world, as two of the greatest
historians Will Durant and Arnold Toynhee had said, has to look to the
Hindu civilisation for relief from conflicts. Durant told the West
that “in return for conquest, arrogance and spoliation, India will
teach us tolerance and gentleness of the mature mind, the quiet
content of the un-acquisitive soul, the calm of the understanding
spirit and unifying, pacifying love for all living things”
. Toynbee
prophesied that “a chapter which had a Western beginning will have to
have an Indian ending if it is not to end in self-destruction of the
human race. At this supremely dangerous moment in human history, the
only way of salvation is the ancient Hindu way. Here, we have the
attitude and spirit that can make it possible for the human race to
grow together into a single family”
. The two historians have exposed
the source of disharmony and pointed to where to look for solution.

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Note:

We may have opposite views on this issue. So, Instead of discussing about the author, let’s focus on the issues he raised.

Conversion is violence. Conversion is predatory.

Please share your comments on this.

51 Responses to “Conversion destroys religious harmony – By SWAMI DAYANANDA SARASWATHI”


  1. 1 Omeed January 23, 2008 at 9:51 pm

    This view, beside the aggression of Muslims and Christians towards our good religion and its followers, is exactly the kind of nonsense that has resulted in the dying out of our good religion. Nowhere in the scriptures are there any words about the religion being exclusive to Iranians/Persian or even Aryans. In contrast, Asho Zartosht preached about the universality of the religion and asked for Ahura Mazda’s assistance in converting all to his good religion. There is genetic evidence that the very same orthodox Parsi Zoroastrians who tirelessly preach about the exclusivity of the good religion have indeed descended from mixed parentage of Zoroastrian/Persian fathers and their marriage with Hindu/Dravidian wives throughout the centuries, hence the different appearances of Iranian and Parsi Zoroastrians (see American Journal of Human Genetics, 2004).

    There is no doubt that there are tribal religions around the world, Judaism being one. Yahveh is an Israelite god, which identifies itself as the god of that tribe. In spite of this, the majority of Jews around the world accept conversion into their religion, provided the convert can prove his dedication and good knowledge of the Judaic facts. This is the exact opposite to Zoroastrianism which announced itself as belonging to the whole humanity, but is now held back by a bunch of ignorant backward thinking behdins.

    What is so violent and predatory about a person of sound mind turning to one of the most beautiful philosophies in human history “with his best mind and open eyes and ears” (cf Gathas)? Violent is the PREVENTION of conversion and allowing evil to continue in the world. For those who stick to these views… go and study your religion!

  2. 2 Janet Walgren January 24, 2008 at 8:16 am

    This is an interesting topic. I am Mormon or in otherwords I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Early Mormons were persecuted and murdered by mobsters who claimed to be Christians and claimed the Mormons were not Christian. Their violence was speard on by preachers who wanted to prevent members of ” their” flock from converting to Mormonism.

    This argument is interesting because it poses the question, “To whom do we belong?” If we be children of God, doesn’t it follow that we belong to no man other than our own family? And, when we become adults, what about agency, the freedom to self direct? Would God be just in judging a person for their choices if no choice existed? I have seen men and women of several faiths peacfully co-exist in a nation’s culture while exercising different religious sub-cultures.

    I believe that just as a good father looks to the hearts of his children, God – our eternal father in heaven, looks to the hearts of his children and rewards them for their kindness, their charity, their good works, their love and obedience to his laws. I certainly believe that a just God would not send a child to a Hindu or a Muslim or a Zooastrian or a Jewish mother then forbid them entry to heaven just because he sent them to that particular mother instead of a Christian mother. To believe otherwise denies the justice of God.

    I believe that love and hate can not co-exist. If one professes to love God and hate his fellow beings, that presents a problem in my mind.

    Senthil, Thanks for a very interesting post. I liked it very much. Although I must respectfully agree to disagree with some of the arguments in the article, it is very interesting to become aware of the feelings the argument presented.

  3. 3 senthil January 24, 2008 at 11:55 am

    Thanks a lot janet for your valuable comment.. I am very much humbled by your response…

    It seems every religion has its own way of spirituality. as you said, in traditional christianity, they believe, that jesus will reward for every good deeds. It may be that they were unaware of other cultures and religions.

    In Hinduism, there are lot of philosophies and spiritual books. There were similar problems of orthodoxy in India, like worshippers of shiva, vishnu, and also with buddhists, jains etc. There were some clashes earlier. But, they all adjusted, after realising the truth.

    In Bhagawath Githa, krishna says “All paths lead to the same god.”. This very statement, is very inclusive, and embraces all other cultures, including christianity and islam.

    In the recent history, we had a saint called “Ramakrishna Paramahamsar”, who practised all religions in his life time. His main deity is Durgadevi, but, he went to a church and practised christianity for some time. He went to a mosque and practised Islam some time. And finally, he said, he saw & realised the same god in all forms of worship. The god, which traverses beyond all materialistic identities.

    So, the problem here is Not the religion or the mode of worship. But, the way the religion is propogated through unfair means.

  4. 4 Priya Raju January 24, 2008 at 6:53 pm

    Senthil – I just have 2 questions for you.

    1. Are you ok if people voluntarily convert to another religion? Converting to another religion is the fundamental right of any Indian, protected by our constitution. Its a free country.

    2. The foreigners you met in that ashram. How many of them had converted to Hinduism? What does Swami Dayanand Saraswathi think about that?

    Answers to (1) & (2) can’t contradict each other.

  5. 5 senthil January 24, 2008 at 8:50 pm

    Thanks Priya.. I am completely OK, if one converts out of his will without any coercion, or brainwashing.. What’s there in it, if he worships, shiva or vishnu or jesus or allah.. But, after converting, if he return back, and says “Your god is false, and you fools are worshipping stone etc”, its really a concern for me..

    I had my realisation from Swamy Ramakrishna Paramahamsar.. Spirituality is what we realise ourselves from god.. and i believe, i can attain the same spiritual ectasy, through jesus, or allah or shiva, as experienced by ramakrishnar.. Infact, many of the famous spiritual persons are provided by the sufism..

    hinduism is all about realisation of god.. otherwise, how come, so much of the people throng to Sai baba temple, who is a muslim saint.. And even after so much history of bloody battles, hindus throng at ajmer dargah, nahoor dargah.. We are concerned with personal realisation of that eternal brahma.. whether its from a dargah or from a church or from a shiva temple..

    Regarding the ashram, its a good question.. The ashram is “Arsha Vidya Gurukulam”.. I dont know the full details on whether they are converted .. Probably, i will get the answer from the concerned persons, when i visit them next time.. (probably within one or two weeks..)

    Personally, based on Ramana Maharishi’s life history, i feel, there is no such thing as converting to Hinduism.. Once a westerner came to him, and asked ramana maharishi.. “I want to convert to Hinduism”.. He told, “you need not convert.. rather you need to just realise the brahman..”

    Infact, there is no concept of Conversion in Hinduism..

    I am more of the worshipper of my gula deivam, than a vedic god.. I can worship any god.. but cannot convert to another caste.. However, i can become a rishi.. or a sanyas..

    There is a saying “We should not see rishi moolam or nadhi moolam” for saints.. A saint is not associated with any of the identity.. He is just a saint.. and this inherent culture, is the reason, why so many brahmins fell to the feet of Mata Amritanandamayi, even though she is from a tribal caste..

  6. 6 senthil January 24, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    If some one comes to me and say “Worship Jesus”.. I am glad to do so.. i am ready to worship.. If they say “You should worship jesus like this”,.. its fine,and i will follow it..

    But, if they come and say “Convert to christianity”, i will ask, “what should i do to convert?”

    “You have to worship jesus for that”..

    I will worship jesus now itself. But why should i convert for that?

    NO answer..

    If i worship Jesus and allah, then what am i?

    am i christian or muslim?

  7. 7 Priya Raju January 24, 2008 at 10:05 pm

    Senthil – I’ve read several accounts of people who converted to Hinduism. Ramana Maharishi talked heavy metaphysics, so checking other Ashrams is a better idea. Ananda Vikatan used to carry articles about the Madurai Adheenam & how people became Hindus there.

    What do you think about Iskcon? Is that part of Hinduism or not? Do you know how many people from the developed nations have become Hindus due to Iskcon? Iskcon very aggressively tries to bring people to their fold – so much so that they are treated as a nuisance in the US.

    How does one define coercion? I have people in my family that became Christians. They wanted better prospects & they couldn’t get it in their religion. Another religion offered it & they took it. Not all people care for religion & tradition – especially if they are struggling to make ends meet.

    Religious leaders are alarmed by conversions, since that undermines their own importance. If they don’t want people to convert, they should take care of the needy – before some other religion does.

  8. 8 senthil January 24, 2008 at 11:13 pm

    Thanks priya..

    I dont have any issue with voluntary conversion. In your case, your family members voluntarily converted for some benefits. (I dont know, if they denigrate Hindu gods or hate it.. if not probably they are matured persons, whom i have no problem with)

    I agree ISKCON is too aggressive.. They even dont accept gods other than krishna :) They are mostly comprised of only vaishnavites.. And i think you know that Ford CEO is one of the staunch devotee of ISKCON..

    How does one define coercion?? One of the method is to make one struggle for basic needs… my relative whom i said is coerced using emotions..

    There are other methods.. ie, to target the poors and convert them.. once a certain number is reached, then use them to capture power locally.. like panchayat post, councillor post.. Then starts the real game.. Those non-christians are marginalised.. All attempts are made to bring them down in all aspects, economically, politically, religiously.. The festivals of non-christians are in allways hindered.. By all these, a depression is created among them.. and finally, the alternate way is opened.. ie, if they become christian, then they can improve..

    Once a cluster of panchayat is captured, then assembly seats then parliamentry seats..

    If you look at the Northeastern states, this is what happened.

    This is what the result of British rule.. The richest country, was virtually plundered in to utter poverty.. and later, they threw some bits of what they looted, and now we are excited about that..

    Rajaji had mentioned in his book that “Whereever christianity went, it was followed by sword…”
    Its an open secret,that britishers gathered lot of intelligence through churches.. The churches were the backbone of the british rule, after army & navy..

    Please note that, i am not targetting normal christians.. But, the churches who are organised and who are behind the attack..

    Today, the Hindu religious leaders are virtually checkmated… See all the richest temples are under government control.. their land endowments are plundered by our own government…

    Temples which are source of various charity, like annadhanams educational service, were first confiscated by britishers and then continued by our government..

    And today, the missionaries, with their international clout, hold a large sway over governmental establishments, and hence blocking every aspects of governmental influence over the people..

    They had invested in around 80% of Indian Medias, and influence most of the articles through them, thus manufacturing public opinion..

    That’s why, in Indian media’s, you can see programmes like “Women not allowed in sabarimala” but not about “male only” churches worldwide.

  9. 9 senthil January 24, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    If at all, people from America embraced Hinduism, its out of their will.. (i hope you would agree that no amount of coercion is possible in america).. No tactics, no false propoganda, no governmental manipulation etc..

    Its because, american people looked for alternative and hence embracing Hinduism..

    Also, you would have read about attack on ISKCON in Russia.. simply because, ISKCON worships Lord Krishna.. And the pastor openly stated that “LOrd krishna is a daemon” .. they have so much hatred on us.

    We could not compare conversion to hinduism & conversion to christianity.. In the former, the people had complete freedom, but in the later, it does not exist.

    Another thing is that you cannot show any hate material by any of our religious leaders against christianity.. But, i can show you tons of such hate material by christian leaders over Hinduism..

    In Hinduism, the religious leader only guide people.. People can either accept them or reject them..

    whereas in christianity, they control people, through religion.. There is only one way..

    I hope, atleast you would ackowledge my concern on attack on my religion & culture…

  10. 10 Priya Raju January 25, 2008 at 9:36 am

    Senthil – You have misunderstood what “Male Only” churches mean. They want to ban female priests. Not that I like the idea. But they don’t ban female worshippers! Sabari Mala bans all women, including worshippers. Forget female priests.

    There are a few churches which ban women entirely, but they are very few. None of the prominent churches that I know of ban women worshippers. Whereas, Sabari Mala is a prominent pilgrimage site for Hindus.

    You cannot compare some obscure nut in a mountain building a church banning female worshippers – with a pilgrimage site for mainstream Hindus!

    You should compare apples to apples. There is no “Media Conspiracy” here. Indian Media covers news that is relevant to many Indians. If St George’s Cathedral in Chennai bans female worshippers – that’s news. If some wingnut bans females in a church at which 10 men attend, why should the media bother?

  11. 11 Priya Raju January 25, 2008 at 10:07 am

    Senthil – Another point. If you are not against “Willing Conversion”, you should not say “Conversion Destroys Harmony”. That looks like you are against all conversions. You should articulate your position better.

    Please note that most Sang Parivar activists are not as generous as you. I saw a discussion on “Times Now”, where they condemned conversions- where the down-trodden changed their allegiance for money or better prospects. They said “People should not convert to another religion because the church gives them money. It doesn’t matter if they are in abject poverty”.

    Many people convert because they are Dalits & they want to be treated with respect. There were Dailt leaders in that discussion who constantly challenged the Sang Parivar’s position. Sang Parivar activists adroitly averted a discussion with the Dalit leaders.

    Religious leaders will gain more respect & acceptance if they take a more tolerant stance. And they should avoid mixing lies & unsubstantiated claims along with their legitimate concerns (if they have any). They should avoid spouting rhetoric after rhetoric about how India is a great country, is a beacon of wisdom & how Hindus never convert or persecute others.

    If they just say, “I want to ensure there isn’t hate speech against Hinduism. I also want to know more about mass conversions happening in villages – can the CBI investigate to see if people are forced?” – They would truly garner the respect & attention of people. As of now, they just look like rabble rousers who are up in arms about another religion gaining momentum.

  12. 12 venkat January 25, 2008 at 11:14 am

    Priya,
    You have raised some questions.

    First, we should understand what is Hinduism. Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma. It contains many religions inside, called Vaishnava, Saiva, Sakta, Ganapatya, Kaumara and Soura religions.

    If at all there is conversion into Hinduism – Sanatana Dharma, one has to worship a God according to one of those religions. This is the route to become a member of Sanatana family. In short Sanatana is a collection of theisms. The underlying idea is God centredness by being a member of the religions and being faithful to his religion.

    Talikng about conversion: The Christians failed in their attempt to evangelise Bharat because it was already centred on God- their Gods. One more really not mattered.
    Christians tried two ways. First was to introduce the scripture of bible. But they found theirs was no match to the scores of better scriptures available already.

    Then they resorted to their second vicious plan. That of replacement. Note it, they employ it specifically for India. They first approached illiterate, low level peasants and talked about their God. But even those people had their own God. Then , the usual help/ medical/ educational accommodations were started and it was stated to them that the hapless people got it from Jesus !

    Then they asked them also to prey to Jesus. Then they slowly replaced the native God to the alien God. This is the trend that the missionary employs for conversion. You had stated in your comment that your family members had converted for ‘better prospects’. What a sad commentary !

    Ideologically they can never conquer Hinduism- Sanatana Dharma. They use such short cuts of replacing God with another. This is what angers others. The country had one split based on religion. Is that not enough ? What is going on in the north eastern staes is religion based separatism. Do you noe realise the designs of the church ? The churches, since the beginning were political, material oriented and its entire clergy lustful womanizers and power mongers.

    Compare this with our own sanyasis. A great number of them are unseen, meditating in the caves, or simply plain clothed like us and doing tremendous sadhana. In the entire Christian world, show me a God realised person. I would like to ask him some questions.

    In essence Christianity has become a refuge of convenience mongers, fanatics, and the sheeplike followers. visit for a first hand feel of what made Christianity.
    Hari Om
    Venkat

  13. 13 Priya Raju January 25, 2008 at 11:17 am

    Senthil – About your claim that Hindus don’t circulate hate materials, here is a link from the Coptic Christians in Egypt about a “Christian Hate” CD circulated in Maharashtra & Gujarat.

    If you avoid unsubstantiated claims & rhetoric, people will listen to you with an open mind.

    http://freecopts.net/english/index.php?Itemid=9&id=498&option=com_content&task=view

    Here is the critical content from the above link:

    The CD, made by the Shabri Kumbh Samorah Aayojan Samiti (Organizing Committee) and titled “Shri Shabri Kumbh 2006: Spirituality along with the Wave of Patriotism,” “incites Hindus against the Christian community and suggests that Christians be attacked and beheaded,” said the petitioner, alleging that the CDs were widely circulated, distributed and openly sold in the states of Gujarat and Maharashtra and in the north-eastern states.

    “In the CD, the narrator, while talking about Hindu tradition and culture, makes constant references to the evil forces and foreign powers that are out to destroy the Hindu religion whilst simultaneously flashing pictures of churches and Cross on the screen as if to insinuate that the Christian community is the evil force and the foreign power that the Hindu community has to reckon with,” the daily quoted the petitioner as saying.

    On the CD cover, there is a caricature of a headless Christian priest wearing a cassock and holding a cross. “In place of the head is a question mark symbol,” the petitioner lamented. “The caption on the top of this picture literally translates into ‘Church: in the name of service.’”

    The CDs were distributed during the rally, and several leaders of the Hindu extremist organization Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), its political wing the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), and other affiliate groups such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP or World Hindu Council), gave inflammatory speeches against Christians.

  14. 14 Priya Raju January 25, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Venkat – Why do you think the members of my extended family converting to Christianity is a “sad commentary”? What was sad is this – They didn’t have food to eat, scope to study, get a job or get married. Someone offered them an olive branch & they took it.

    So, a not-sad commentary for you would be them starving, but clinging on to Hinduism? If one of the many sanyasins that you mention had helped them out, they may still be Hindus.

  15. 15 venkat January 25, 2008 at 3:15 pm

    Priya

    You have answered your own question. I have helped many many non Hindus. I am in a position that can make a financial difference to them. But till date, I have never asked them to convert.

    My friend took his Muslim friend’s daughter to our Murugan temple for a prayer for her marriage which was getting too delayed. She got engaged immediately. Did my friend that she pray Muruga ?

    So you mean to say that anyone can give two square meals to somebody and ask them to convert ? If I do convert some by offering them something, I would rank them with someone who has sold his mother.

    The trading of faith- what else can you call it except as evil and spiritual prostitution?

    Re your comment on sannyasis- They have nothing to offer except love, and direction. Like the pastors and fathers, they do not own Sumos , Safaris and huge bank accounts and a slippery , lie smacked tongue.

    But, I assure you, many converts are rethinking and are returning. They are attracted by Buddhism than Christianity.

    Venkat

  16. 16 Priya Raju January 25, 2008 at 3:46 pm

    Venkat – Its really nice that you are helping people without asking for anything in return. Are there many such people like you? Can you & people like you help every single needy person in the world?

    What I mean is, I don’t care if someone converts because they get monetary or other help. I don’t think its appropriate to judge people from a high moral podium that I’ve erected for myself.

    So, you have reviewed every single Christian priest & found them in Sumos, with Swiss bank accounts, in the company of wanton women? You seem to have missed out people like Mother Theresa, who dedicated their lives for India. There are many decent priests who truly want to serve their God & people.

    And you’ve reviewed every single Hindu priest & found them paragons of virtue! Have you heard of priests like Premananda, who raped countless women? Doubtless, there are many decent Hindu priests who think about Maya & Nirvana and how they can help people.

    But – Sweeping generalization is seldom reality.

  17. 17 venkat January 25, 2008 at 9:52 pm

    Priya
    Yes you said about Teresa- one of the so called great missionaries. I held her in esteem till the net opened my eyes.

    She had converted even the about to be dead just for its own sake.

    I had read reports that in her hospitals the mentally challenged children were tied to the beds to minimise trouble.

    The way of her fund raising is a ver very questionable one.

    http://www.christianaggression.org

    this site contains damning materials against her.

    Re Premananda: The less talked the better. he is another who targets the gullible who are after instant affluence and instant salvation. He is the straight equivalent of his christian counterpart, but cruder than them.

    Venkat

  18. 18 senthil January 25, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    mm.. did not expect so much of discussion.. :)

    Priya.. regarding your premananda comment:

    /*** who raped countless women ***/
    This is grossly exaggerated statement.. Nothing to say :)

    Secondly, “Premananda was punished, and put behind the bars”..
    How many of the pastors & fathers were so far punished in India?
    This speaks the rest..

    Secondly, your relative being converted… I would ask.. why your family had not helped them, to save from their poverty? (I am asking this, since you have questioned the hindu religious leaders.. when your own family could not help, how those penyyless sadhus or the poor Hindus could help?)
    The reality is that your relative were being exploited out of their poverty?

  19. 19 senthil January 25, 2008 at 10:29 pm

    I think, the following link confirms what venkat has mentioned..
    http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/dec/01iype.htm

    Some excertps from the above link;

    “I know many priests who drink and womanise regularly. But they still remain within the dioceses and pastoral ministry and serve the local people. Our social set-up is such that a priest giving up the cassock for marriage is a butt of ridicule,” he said.

    But Catholic activists who have launched a movement against the church claim that cases of priests caught in sex crimes are increasing in the state. “It seems priests in Kerala are losing their faith and virginity. We know the names of many priests who deliberately fail to keep their sacred pledge of a celibate lifestyle,” says Sebastian Vattamattam, secretary of Kottayam-based Vikas Institute that has raked up the sex scandal involving Father Cyriac Karthikapally.

  20. 20 senthil January 25, 2008 at 10:32 pm

    Another link, on the same line.

    http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=189&page=11

    “The SIT found that there were 974 unnatural deaths in the centre in the past few years. Bodies are being disposed of without post-mortem or informing relatives. Patients with no mental illness are given psychotropic drugs and kept in forced confinements. Iron-gated cells exist there. The medical wing is functioning without proper licenses. The cash and ornaments of the dead and visiting people are looted. Allegations are there that the people are made drug addicts by forcibly injecting drugs. It is said that women are raped even by Fathers. The centre also indulges in ‘FERA’ violations, inclusion of extremists and terrorists in voters’ list and getting grants from central government giving false information. “

  21. 21 senthil January 25, 2008 at 10:44 pm

    Repy to comment#11:

    Voluntary conversion is very very miniscule. Infact, we can call it as Embracing and not converting.

    Converting by allurement of money is equivalent to bribe. Converting by utilising poverty is exploitation. Converting by utilising natural calamities is inhuman.

    I am really surprised, how you could agree to this worst sort of discrimination.. ie, to provide help only to those poors who converted, leaving others to further marginalisation. I believe a liberal person, like you would not support such an naked discrimination.

  22. 22 Vishnu January 26, 2008 at 11:24 am

    Dear all…

    There is no such thing as “conversion” from a true Hindu or Indian perspective. The statement that “there no concept of Conversion in Hinduism” actually means Hindus to not prescribe or confine to a specific “religion” but rather embraces the entire humanity. It does not mean that a Hindu need to accept or worship shiva or vishnu or jesus or allah at the same time but rather it means, a Hindu is left with the freewill to choose and practice whatever as he or she evolves and the Hindu tradition (Hinduism or Sanathana Dharma) does not limit ones freedom.

    Also, there is no such thing called “Freedom of convert”. “Freedom to convert” is counterproductive as a generalized doctrine. It fails to come to terms with the complex interrelationships between self and society that make the concept of individual choice meaningful. Hence, religious conversion undermines, and in extremes would dissolve, that individual autonomy and human freedom.

    Thus in reality, the act of conversion itself is against the fabric of freedom of choice as it limits oneself to bind by a specific doctrines or god, book or saviour. That is why hindus usually says that one can’t really convert to Hinduism, because the Hindu thought itself liberates oneself from getting “converted” to a specific system.

    Therefore there is no such thing called “voluntarily convertion to another religion”.

    Priya Raju said that “Converting to another religion is the fundamental right of any Indian, protected by our constitution.”… but this is a wrong statement as the Constitution sanctions “freedom’ only for practising and propagating and certainly not for converting. This fact has been asserted by the Supreme Court of India as well, way back in 1977 itself.

    The court also made it clear that the act of “practice’ is concerned primarily with religious worship, ritual and observations. Propagation means the right to communicate beliefs to another person or to expound the tenets of one’s religion, but does not include the right to conversion.

    t also said that “propagation’ of one’s religion cannot impinge on the “freedom of conscience’ of other citizens. As a matter of fact, the State of Madhya Pradesh has been having an anti-conversion law in its statute books for the last 40 years and its constitutional validity was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1977 itself.

    To put it simple and straight… any act of conversion is unconstitutional, illegal and against the freedom of nation!

  23. 23 senthil January 26, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    In continuation with comment#20, i would like to provide the following detailed news, that happened in salem, tamilnadu.

    The following news is about the death of a girl in a christian run institutions.. the blogger is a journalist, and he had published this news with on the field photos. (its in tamil)

    http://puduvaisaravanan.blogspot.com/2007/10/blog-post_1475.html
    http://puduvaisaravanan.blogspot.com/2007/10/blog-post_22.html

    The public protest is also photographed and displayed there..

    Yet, there is no reason, why there is no punishment for those accused..

  24. 24 senthil January 29, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    I feel, the following comment in archana’s blog is best example of how conversion destroys one’s own soul.
    http://archanaraghuram.wordpress.com/2008/01/25/tribal-art-of-india/#comment-3046

  25. 25 Srivathsan March 13, 2008 at 1:33 am

    It is the weak-minded which the christians target to convert. I want to ask a question. There are millions of brahmins in India, who are languishing under severe poverty. If Christianity is a true religion, then it should be capable-enough to convert these poor brahmins by showing them the lure of money, heaven, and all kinds of non-sense. Why are they not able to do it? They for sure know – they will not be able to sell. Like cowards, they target the poor weak-minded people. The greatness of a religion is surely not number of followers, but by the quality of philosophical exposition a religion contains.

  26. 26 Srivathsan March 13, 2008 at 1:39 am

    It is the weak-minded which the christians target to convert. I want to ask a question. There are millions of brahmins in India, who are languishing under severe poverty. If Christianity is a true religion, then it should be capable-enough to convert these poor brahmins by showing them the lure of money, heaven, and all kinds of non-sense. Why are they not able to do it? They for sure know – they will not be able to sell. Like cowards, they target the poor weak-minded people. The greatness of a religion is judged purely on its legendary philosophical expositions and definitely not by the number of followers.

  27. 27 Ronald June 7, 2008 at 1:13 am

    Every person have the rigth to convert to any religion he wont !!!!!!!!
    in Israel is a crime to change your religion.

  28. 28 senthil June 7, 2008 at 11:07 am

    Dear Ronald,

    What you have said is embracing.. Any voluntary conversion is embracing.

    However, what we oppose is forcible conversion, done by big organisations like missionaries.. forcible means, through act of intimidation (direct or indirect), creating a situation, where the targetted people has no other means but to get help from them, wielding moneypower in government circles to prevent any proactive policies from reaching the poor people, so that these missionaries can use that poverty to convert..

    These are all that we oppose..

  29. 29 K Rienke June 30, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Two thoughts:

    1)

    A arguement from bad defination is no arguement at all.

    To ‘model christ’ is to behave well.

    If I behave well and you behave badly and so some third person wants to live from my truth ( the love of Christ Jesus ) – well that is their free will.

    Violence is preventing their free will.

    Therefore DAYANANDA SARASWATHI is the violent one here.

    2)

    True religion is a belief that something ( God) is true and a love of that truth and a desire to live by that truth.

    If I believe that some revelation is true ( such as Jesus is God or – to play fair – Vishnu is God ) then that is my truth and my ‘conversion’.

    Violence is when you prevent someone from expressing and living by their own truth ( aka conversion).

    Therefore DAYANANDA SARASWATHI is the violent one here.

  30. 30 senthil July 2, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Rienke,

    1. When you attempt to convert others, then you intention and behaviour becomes bad even if its non-violent.. at the same time, when i fight against those who want to destroy me, then my behaviour is just and good, even if i use violence to safegaurd myself..

    So, what swamy dayananda saraswati told is correct.. conversion is violence, because it destroys other’s sovereignity..

    2. No one is disturbing you from believing something. you have right to follow any thing. The issue is when you start coercing or forcing in the name of freedom of expression..

  31. 31 Priya Raju July 23, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Senthil – I saw your response to my comment just now.

    Why my family didn’t help their relatives when they were in need? That’s a downright indecent question. Questioning what my family did is in very bad taste. That presumes that they did nothing when they could help. You have absolutely no right to do that.

    The answer is – because they were starving themselves. I request you to keep such impertinent questions to yourself in future.

  32. 32 Priya Raju July 23, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    It seems to me, Senthil – that on one hand to portray yourself as the upholder of our values. While on the other hand, you imagine the worst about even the families of people who have an opposing perspective.

    Perhaps you imagine them to be values themselves, being downright impudent.

    You should be ashamed of yourself for asking such questions, in the name of defending your so called values.

  33. 33 senthil July 23, 2008 at 9:45 pm

    Priya.. I am sorry, if i have hurted you.. my intention is not that..

  34. 34 Diffcult to Destory Hinduism July 30, 2008 at 2:53 pm

    Dear Priya,

    I know when a person is suffering a other person should come and help him. This way of helping is called Philosophy of Humanity.

    Please try to understand that these cheap christians are converting people in name of poverty and destorying a culture. Like burning/killing/selling your own mother to death for not feeding you and accepting some one as a mother how are feeding you now.

    Atleast you must understand a while that you can stand, walk, run and speak this much strenght you got from your mother not from some.

    If a person is changing his whole culture for a piece of paper and metals its equal to selling the trust, faith to some one.

    Just by helping him you cannot ask him to follow the way which you choosed. If he wish to travell with you then bring him near to you.

    When he doesn’t want to travell with you, you cannot force him by emotionally black mailing that you have save him. Its a non sense, do good to others and don’t expect regards for that , good will protect all the way.

    Jai Hind

  35. 35 krk August 29, 2008 at 8:32 am

    jesus—-the great,the compassionate one,a yogi,god himself will be worshipped and venerated like one of our gods and gurus,like shiva ,vishnu, the buddha,sai baba…

  36. 36 Roger October 30, 2008 at 11:27 am

    Why this mess on conversions?
    Hindus hate their own Dalits and Tribals.
    What is the position of dalits and tribals in the inner hearts of the Upper Caste Hindus?

    Raj Thackery is killing Hindus from Norht India in Maharashtra?

    Yes Hinduism is truly excellent religion

  37. 37 Roger October 30, 2008 at 11:28 am

    KRK Well Said.

  38. 38 DARE October 30, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    To everyone harping on coversion,
    In the first place it is all nonsense to talk about it. I was a hindu and converted to Islam. So did many of my friends. Who are you to question my decision? I got money when I did. So what? I needed the mone. Would you give it to me? You never. You only preach and want to keep us your slaves. All of you preaching against conversion…GET LOST!! The more you preach against, the more are you going to see the same. Killing a cow or eating is taboo. But what about your temple ceremonies that even kill and sacrifice many innocent human beings? You kill a human being, but not a bull or cow. You will kill the man who slaughters a cow or a bull. So much is the value you guys give to human life. Is this the kind of religion you try to defend? Therefore YOU still are pagans…I say this thousand times and will say right on your face. Your are a curse to the civilized society, because you have lost sight of priorities. Would you like to convert at this point, or still like coveting?

  39. 39 senthil November 1, 2008 at 1:04 am

    Mr. Dare.. read the history of islam, the religion that you converted..
    probably, when you converted for money, why do you care for that..

    have you ever seen how a man’s throat is slit in Iraq in the name of your god.. if not see those.. its available freely in net..

    you will understand the value of human life in your converted religion..

    you can say whatever you want.. who cares, unless its true..

    We rever cow so much as you hate pig.. just like you cannot bear when some one throws pig in mosque, we cannot bear some one killing cows..

  40. 40 Sujatha November 27, 2008 at 7:21 pm

    Sir,

    Excellent blog.

    At any cost, conversion is not acceptable, especially in the way of brainwash, and forcible way, giving money etc.,

    Is anyone will tell after 20-30 years that, i born 2 somebody else, not for my mother and father. How shame it will be?

    Conversion also like that.

  41. 41 jh November 27, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    sujatha

    then why are the hindu sanyasis converting christians in America, Europe and other places. What do you call the christians converted to hinduism? At this point do you think they are born to some other parents than theeir own…ha haq.

  42. 42 senthil November 28, 2008 at 12:14 pm

    Jh,

    The sanyasins do not say “My god is the only true god”.. the sanyasins do not say “You have to leave christianity to embrace hinduism”.. the sanyasins dont have the concept of believers and non-believers..

    There is no proletysing agenda as forcible as the missionaries in india, and as cowardly as it is done in india..

    The hindu sanyasins never force any one, never lure any one, and never ask any one to disown their parent religion..

    hope, you can understand the difference..

  43. 43 Sujatha November 28, 2008 at 1:46 pm

    Dear jh,

    Mr. Senthil has given my reply. Please think oncegain, any of our Hindu Sanyasis compelling to convert anybody?

    My strong opinion s Our’s s a veryyyyyyyyy old religion. Nobody can tell the exact century. (Just for research purpose somebody can give this ,that etc and all) But u can give JESUS Birth year and u can also tell your RELIGION’s age, But for us? Even so it’s applicable for Muslims, they can also tell when their religion born.
    My opinion s EACH ND EVERY extra religion has come from OUR’s and it has splitted in the different name.

    People of some part of the world s coming back to us. I hope it has happened after our GREAT SAINT Swamiji’s (VIVEKANANDA) Chicago speech. Yes, this is true, we r not telling that v r the only religion and god who gives relief from your suffering, we r telling that EVERYTHING S PART OF LIFE, TAKE LIFE AS IT COMES, U CAN’T BEAT UR KARMA.

    Please don’t take it anything serious. Becoz I LOVE my religion, country very much and i am very PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN nd will pray god after my death also, i would like to born in my country only,whatever may be, if it s just like a GRASS OR STONE, i don’t bother.

  44. 44 RamLakshman December 23, 2008 at 10:58 am

    Mitrotsavam i.e. winter solstice i.e. not X’mas
    These two very readable (and not very long) articles are good eye openers for how Christism stole from every possible tradition before they snuffed the tradition out.

    as noted, the alleged X’mas had nothing to do with the birth of an alleged godman with multiple foreskins (force(kin) multiplier effect) – rather, it was a celebration of the sun god in older nature venerating traditions

    http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/saturdayextra/story.html?id=4d1d82ef-11eb-4ec7-b6ca-746df0288e9bhttp://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/columnists/story.html?id=117c6f1e-5792-43b0-8ba2-580c218eb2d7

    interesting that the alleged Easter is a take off on a Germanic festival for the goddess of fertility at the springtime equinox. makes complete sense of course – spring being the season when life would burst forth after an icy germanic winter

  45. 45 Job Abraham April 20, 2009 at 12:52 am

    It seems quite a lively discussion. What started as a friendly exchange of information has resulted in a polarized debate with accusation flying about like pots and pans…

    Couple of quick observations and I am out of here.

    1. Conversion for satisfaction of material wants should not be permitted. Whether its christians, muslims or hindus. Materialism is diametrically opposite to spirituality. One cannot help you find the other. So Priya, conversion for material wants and needs if that were the case, merely projects you as opportunists… not spiritual persons. In religion you cannot find satisfaction of material needs. If anyone has told you that I assure you that you have been misled.

    2. I however find it quite repulsive and distasteful the subject of caste system. While it may have been justified as a social order required in ancient times the continual use of the same to project particular sections as being superior is completely helpful to disharmony and disunity. I find the caste system almost akin to a form a racial discrimination… treating shudras (dalits, harijans, etc…)as a race considering that they cannot progress up the caste ladder.

    3. The topic of conversion is very sensitive. How would you distinguish between a voluntary convert, a convert who has been enticed (forced conversion). While Senthil argues that if the convert comes back to his former religion and makes a mockery of that religious rites that is unaccepetable. But you still havent answered the question, what is the yardstick that one would use to measure whether a conversion has been forced or not?

    4. I was under the impression that Hinduism is a way of life… atleast thats what its proponents tell me. If that were so, we cannot use the term conversion since religious conversion implies conversion from one religion to another.

    5. Marx has stated that “Religion is the opium of the masses”. I am beginning to think that he might have a point, especially post 1992 riots in Mumbai (Bombay then), 2001 riots in Gujarat, 2008 riots in Orissa. Probably, someone here might argue that Orissa riots was in the making and it was only a matter of time before it happened. Perhaps then we should for the sake of communal harmony divide cities and town and villages into religious communities… like the british did to east and west bengal.

    6. We sit and cry that terrorism is being wrought upon our cities by muslims… christians are converting our religions followers. If someone unleashes violence upon another, would you not think that the other would wait for an opportunity to do the same…? If you kill and maim the followers of the other religion, do you not think that that would give them a reason to argue for retaliation in blood?

    7. And when we start thinking on the basis of different castes and religions we cease to be Indians and we become Hindus, Christians and Muslims living in India. Why would I then want to serve a land where i have been by chance of fate born in the wrong religion? And that sows the seed for separatism and disharmony.

  46. 46 VoP April 22, 2009 at 6:03 am

    Job Abraham,

    > While it may have been justified as a social order required in ancient times the continual use of the same to project particular sections as being superior is completely helpful to disharmony and disunity

    Rightly said. The social order was Varna or Jati system. Not Caste. You want to know who and why one section keeps harping about caste? Please read this in full before you come back with any questions => http://indianrealist.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/missionary-gameplan-doing-a-rwanda-to-india/

    > what is the yardstick that one would use to measure whether a conversion has been forced or not?

    Supreme Court of India’s guidelines. Voluntary conversions are rare. Conversions causing tensions in India are due to – allurement, inducement, fraud and forced. When Christian Maoists use AK-47 to murder a 80 year swamiji serving tribals for 40 years then we know a yardstick has been broken. When Christian terrorists in NE are threatening and killing Hindus for doing Durga pooja then we know the yardstick has been broken. When bible thumpers print literature denigrating Hindu gods ( satydarshini episode ) we know the yardstick has been broken. When Sonia govt of India under vatican diktat prints Crusaders’ Cross on Indian Currency ( Re 10 coin ) we know that yardstick has been broken. What more do you need?

    > I was under the impression that Hinduism is a way of life…

    It is. Hinduism is wetern construct. The moment conversion happens there is a requirement by the local church and padre imposed upon the new converts to eat beef, to throw all images of gods and goddesses that someone has been praying to for centuries, to stop practicing Hindu rituals, to stop wearing bindi & bangles, to stop visiting Hindu relatives and friends….everything is a way of life that was practiced from eons that is threatened to be turned UPSIDE DOWN. Don’t you get it?

    Ever since the pope declared souls will be harvested and cross will be planted in asia in the 3rd millenium the crusade has begun against Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Jains of Asia. This will be the worst genocide of the future wrought by Vatican. Conversion is to Christianity what Jehad is to Islam. Wake up and be on guard!

  47. 47 VoP April 23, 2009 at 9:19 pm

    Job,

    > 2. I however find it quite repulsive and distasteful the subject of caste system.

    Whatever BRITISH DID as always been REPUSLIVE! Not quite repulsive but EXTREMELY REPUSLIVE. The uncivilized WHITE RACE with Christianity as a tool has been a plague decimating civilized civilizations around the world for 2000 years. Read and learn.

    http://indianrealist.wordpress.com/2009/04/23/caste-as-british-creation/

  48. 48 senthil April 25, 2009 at 1:08 pm

    Thanks Job Abraham for commenting here.. my replies are given below.

    1. Conversion Not only by materialistic.. but in any means is wrong.. The missionaries convert by collapsing the person’s mental & moral strength, and exploiting the times when people are emotionally weak.. my close relative, was converted when their son was suffering from kashmir.. the missionaries first converted on false promise that christ will save their child from cancer.. but later, when he died, they said, he has merged with jesus spirit, and that jesus should never be left.. the boy’s mother became mentally unstable for the past 15 years..

    2. Before you comment on caste system, please clarify how far you actually know about it.. we should not comment on our own likes and dis-likes..
    Caste is never a social order.. rather its a social way of living-together..
    Caste and varnas are different, and infact, the original form of caste system is Jaati.. jaati acquired racial tone and became caste because of britishers.. so essentially, caste system is a british creation..

    I myself support my own caste, and am not apologetic about my caste identity… i am trying to bring out the understanding of pre-british jaati system of my caste…

    3. The question of conversion itself is debatable.. When a person voluntarily converts, it is no more conversion.. its a embracing of that religion.. however, when we say “a person is converted”, it means, there is an entity that is converting, and the converted is under its control..
    Conversion by any means is the worst evil, and the history has lot of proof for it..
    Conversion destroys the soul of a man..

    4. In Hinduism, there is the concept of conversion.. many people converted from shaivism to vaishnavism and vice versa.. But the crux of the issue here is that the other god is NOT abused or ridiculed, as christianity does.. christianity, before converting a person, makes him believe that his existing religion is evil, and Jesus is the only true god.. THis is where the problem lies..
    So in Hinduism, conversion is there.. and it does not make the converted to abandon his mother religion.. rather, hinduism gives the freedom to the converted to practice both his old and new religion..

    5.Marx’s sayings apply only to semitic religions.. hinduism is entirely different from semitic religions…
    Moreover, the Hindus are NOT responsible for gujarat or Mumbai riots.. the initiator is the semitic religionist..

    6. When some one kicks you without any reason, its natural that you retaliate.. retaliation is a natural outcome.. otherwise why did america invaded afghanisatan for its 9/11?
    if you dont want violence, identify the root cause and stop that.. saying that “you should not retaliate” is the worst injustice to the affected..
    Now think, who is attacking and maiming ?

    7. Separatism does not lies in religion.. rather the religious intolerance.. everyone has an identity, and there is nothing wrong in asserting that identity.. however, its the intolerance of the semitic religions that is the root cause of all problems..

    India doesnt exists without hinduism.. islam and christianity are the religion of invaders, and it is the inclusiveness of the hinduism, that makes them part of india..
    Saying Hinduism is different from India, is the height of intellectual subversion..
    India is a country of Hindus, who are inclusive enough to treat even the invading religions with equal rights..

  49. 49 senthil April 25, 2009 at 1:09 pm

    Dear VoP,

    Thanks a lot for lot of reference that you have given.. you have lot of valid points, which are unfortunately politically incorrect..

  50. 50 Colonel SS Rajan May 1, 2009 at 7:52 am

    Dear Senthilraja,
    Jai Hind & Vanakkam.
    May I have your Tel No, Cell No & Email ID please.
    Regards,
    Colonel Rajan
    Bangalore, 9448024377

  51. 51 Colonel SS Rajan May 1, 2009 at 8:02 am

    PRESERVATION OF INDIAN CULTURE & HERITAGE
    (By Colonel SS Rajan)

    http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=212&page=29

    1. In today’s world of unbridled materialism, in the garb of globalisation and liberalisation, the need to know and take pride in our (Indian) culture & heritage has taken a back seat; nay, totally ignored. Bharatvarsh enjoys a rich culture & heritage dating back to thousands of years unlike the countries of the West. India has been the torchbearer of science, technology, mathematics, architecture, astronomy & medicine well before the Western world even thought about them. Unfortunately, with the advent of Mughal rule, followed by rule by the British, the people of Bharatvarsh lost their pride in themselves, their culture & heritage. Rather sad. And in case we, the intelligentsia, do not pay heed to the need of preserving our culture & heritage, or rather ignore our culture & heritage, who else is going to do it? I assure you, it would not be the Christians; for they consider themselves closer to the Western (Christian) world, aping them in all ways and deride the Indian (Hindu) way of life; not realizing that the blood which flows in their veins is Hindu blood and they are all converts, converted by unholy, unethical & bigoted Christians by deceit & allurements, taking advantage & exploiting their ignorance & poverty. And our (Indian) culture & heritage is definitely not going to be protected & preserved by the Muslims, the descendants of barbaric Mohd Ghori, Mohd Ghazni, Babur & Aurangzeb who pillaged & plundered, raped & looted and burnt & destroyed thousands of Hindu temples and forcibly converted millions of Hindus by the power of the sword. It is the Hindus and Hindus alone who are responsible for the despicable state we are in, where we are afraid, nay ashamed to call ourselves Hindus. Who else, my friends and Citizens, who else is going to protect & preserve our rich culture & heritage? The answer should be loud & clear. It is the Hindus and Hindus alone who now ought to stand up & take pride in their culture & heritage and take effective measures for the protection & preservation of our Dharma & our way of life.
    2. Seeing things as they are today, I for one see DARKNESS AT NOON. There is a crisis of character & leadership. It is high time the HINDUS, the citizens of Bharatvarsh realize that Sanatana Dharma is under serious threat from Christianity and Islam. As I walked on a Padha Yathra from Chennai to Rameshwaram along the East Coast Road, I found new Churches coming up every few kilometers. It is evident that the Vatican and the Christians in Europe & America are pumping huge sums of money into Bharatvarsh and conversions are on, at a feverish pace. Jesus Christ supposedly preached only love & compassion and NOT conversion. The followers of Jesus Christ are however hell bent on destroying SANATANA DHARMA, the very soul of Bharatvarsh.
    3. An even bigger threat is from Islam. Though the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent were given a separate homeland, i.e. PAKISTAN in the West and EAST PAKISTAN in the East, earlier known as East Bengal and now as Bangladesh; the majority of Muslims in India never migrated to Pakistan or East Pakistan, but stayed back; despite the fact that they were the most vociferous in the demand for the creation of Pakistan and NOT the majority of the Muslims in Sind, Baluchistan & North West Frontier Province, which were forcibly amalgamated along with West Punjab to form Pakistan. Islam they say stands for Peace! But peace for whom? Islam says, peace is for Muslims and NOT for the Kafirs & Infidel Hindus, who need to be relentlessly pushed & crushed till such time the whole of Bharatvarsh stretching from the Hindukush (in Afganistan) to Chittagong (in Bangladesh) is turned into Dar-ul-Islam (the holy land of Islam). And, in consonance with their diabolical plan to over run Bharatvarsh, millions & millions of Muslims from Bangladesh are pouring into India where they are being received with open arms and ration cards by the treacherous Communists and the Congress, all for the sake of votes, under the garb of Secularism, the bane of India. As things stand today, the day is not far off, say by 2050AD, may be sooner not later, that HINDUS would be reduced to a minority and India proclaimed an Islamic state that would join the band of Islamic nations stretching from Turkey to Indonesia.
    4. Being an optimist, I still see light at the end of the tunnel and the future is beckoning us to act fast and avert disaster. We can avert disaster if and only if; we the HINDUS wake up & display Unity. As a means towards awakening the HINDUS from their deep slumber and nudge them towards taking pride in their own culture & way of life, I advocate adoption of EKTA & SADHBHAVANA programme in all cities, towns & villages.
    5. EKTA & SADHBHAVANA programme comprises essentially of seven steps as enunciated below, to be organized in every locality or blocks of hundred houses, for half an hour on Sunday mornings, preferably a little after sunrise:
    1. Hoist & Salute the National Flag designed by Sister Nivedita. The flag in saffron colour (signifying sacrifice) with Vajrayudha in the center (in yellow colour, signifying strength).
    2. Sing VANDE MATARAM.
    3. Perform Soorya Namaskaram.
    4. Perform Pranayam.
    5. Short talk on Ekta & Sadhbhavana.
    6. Sing the respective State Anthem.
    7. Sing Saare jahaan se achhaa, yeh Hindustaan hamaaraa….by Sir Mohd Iqbal.
    6. In addition to above:
    (a) screen movies, at least once a month, of Martyrs who gave their lives for India’s freedom, viz. Shaheed Bhagat Singh, Sukhdev, Rajguru, Vanchinathan, Udham Singh, Madan Lal Dhingra, Veer Savarkar, Jhansi ki Rani Lakshmi Bai, Kittur Rani Chennamma, Chandrasekar Azad, Bankim Chandra Chaterjee, Bepin Chandra Pal, Sri Aurobindo, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose, Lokmanya Bal Gangadhar Tilak, Khudiram Bose, Lala Lajpat Rai, Mahakavi Bharathiyar, VO Chidambaram Pillai, Subramanya Siva, and many others.
    (b) Encourage competitions in all localities, blocks, groups of flats, schools & colleges for talks & essays on Martyrs and award suitable prizes.
    7. To end, I would say, HINDUS, noble citizens of Bharatvarsh, let Ekta & Sadhbhavana be our Credo towards our mission of achieving a strong & prosperous Bharatvarsh, the torchbearer of true Democracy and SANATANA DHARMA.
    JAI HIND.
    VANDE MATARAM


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