Indian Caste System – Some real truths…

Just narrating my experience in my village that make re-think on many of the established dogmas of indian caste system…

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Recently in my village, kumbabishekam was done in a newly built temple by one of the community classified as SC.  When i went to my home, there was full of temple activities, with many local political persons sponsoring for the temple.  Spiritual songs were played in the loudspeaker and when the actual kumbabisham began, the brahmins continuously chanted mantras for long time. (Again, it was a thing to ponder, on how the brahmins, accused for all evils, can do kumbabishekam in the temple of a dalit community)

I enquired at some of the old people there, about the temple, and who conducts the event.  I was told, that this temple was built by that particular community people for over a year, by collecting funds from all those who are working in far-off places.

I asked them, if its for all the dalit people.  He told, that its only for that particular community, and other communities (classified as SC) are not allowed. 

Then I asked the reason, why all dalit people could not have a common temple.

He told, that every community has their own laws, and normally, one community people do not even drink water from another community people’s house.

Again I asked, why?

He told, if they did so, they would be isolated from their own community (i mean caste).

I was surprised.. 

I again asked..  This type of practices occur only among higher castes, and how could the dalit communities practice this among themselves?

“This type of practice exists in almost all communities (castes).  And infact, the Dalit communities have more stricter rules than the other BC communities.

I left the topic, and went to my home..  Later, i had the chance to interact with my neighbour, who belongs to a different dalit community.  I asked her, why dont she attend the kumbabishekam.  She told, its only for the particular community, and their people wont go there. And many of the above said things, she confirmed.

This is more of a new revelation to me, after i started observing various aspects of our society. 

The first question that came to my mind was, why does only a particular community (Mostly the brahmins) were victimised, while actually, the same practice exists in almost all of the communities (ie castes).

And i felt there should be some reason (whether good or bad) on why all the communities chose to remain isoloated, without freely mixing with others.

If possible, I will do another post after some analysis on this.

Typically, when i remember my earlier days, i never came across any of the words like upper caste, lower caste, SC or dalit, till i first encountered these in the text books (i think from 4th or 5th std).

One thing is clear to me..  There was no factual & accurate analysis of our society right from the independance by any of the authors.  Otherwise, there could not be so much contradictions i could see from what i read from the text books, and what i am observe from the current society, that has almost chaged a lot.

Its true, that there were lot of drawbacks in our society.  At the same time there is most probablity that many of the ills of our society that we read from text books, and other published books,  are extrapolated, and quoted out of context.

It became more clear to me, that all the controversaries so far  is aimed at dividing the indian society based on caste lines, and push it in to permanent turmoil. First started by the britishers, unfortunately continued by the politicians even after independance. (I dont want to elaborate more on this now.. leaving it to the readers to search for more details themselves.)

When we take periyar’s concepts, its true that he fought against the social evils.  But, how far did he try to eliminate the more serious impact of untouchability practiced by his own community people?

Before concluding, i would like to quote the following article on Dharampal by Gurumurthy.

http://www.newindpress.com/Column.asp?ID=IE620061115230938&P=old

“What is it that keeps the country down”, asked the speaker. A young man in the audience replied unhesitatingly: “Undoubtedly the institution of caste that kept the majority low castes and the society backward” and added “it continues”.

The speaker replied, “May be”. But, pausing for a moment, he added, “May not be”. Shocked, the young man angrily asked him to explain his “may-not-be” theory.

The speaker calmly mentioned just one fact that clinched the debate. He said, “Before the British rule in India, over two-thirds – yes, two-thirds – of the Indian kings belonged to what is today known as the Other Backward Castes (OBCs).

“It is the British,” he said, “who robbed the OBCs – the ruling class running all socio-economic institutions – of their power, wealth and status.” So it was not the upper caste which usurped the OBCs of their due position in the society?

The speaker’s assertion that it was not so was founded on his study – unbelievably painstaking study for years and decades in the archives in India, England and Germany. He could not be maligned as a ‘saffron’ ideologue and what he said could not be dismissed thus. He was Dharampal, a Gandhian in ceaseless search of truth like his preceptor Gandhi himself was, but a Gandhian with a difference. He ran no ashram on state aid to do ‘Gandhigiri’.

Admitting that “he and those like him do not know much about our own society”, the young man who questioned Dharampal – Banwari is his name – became his student. By meticulous research of the British sources over decades, Dharampal demolished the myth that India was backward educationally or economically when the British entered.

……..

(More about dharampal on www.dharampal.net)

29 Responses to “Indian Caste System – Some real truths…”


  1. 1 C.Swamy September 24, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    This is sheer bull shit. Were all the obcs kings themselves? Were all low caste and untouchables rich enough? Was there no discrimination of any kind before British came to India! Is it not british who made education mandatory to all irrespective of the castes. Gurumurthy or Dharmapal and the like can not undermine the history. Whom they are hoodwinking.
    C.S.

  2. 2 psenthilraja September 24, 2007 at 4:49 pm

    Mr. Swamy.. If you can, argue with facts and decency.. but not like this..

    Ok … Answer my question.. Is it that discrimination happened only in India?

    Are you saying that nothing worst things happened other than india?

    If you are pounding on Caste system for discrimination, can you have a similar offending comments on christianity, for its various atrocities in different parts of India and the world?

    Do you feel, Jallianwala Bagh is worthless before discrimination? Or do you feel, the life of 2 crore people died because of british loot is worthless before caste discrimination?

    What do you say to the britishers who displayed board as “Indians and Dogs are not allowed” .. What’s the word do you want to use to describe this?

    Can you spit the same hatred on the britishers for such a blatant racial discrimination, that they followed in railways, public places, hotels etc?

    In what way, they were to be ignored, and in what way, our past has to be dig deep and deep, just to keep ourselves in low profile.

    If you have the guts to face the truth, go and find yourself of the things that i have described in this article.

    There were some drawbacks in caste system.. Its true that one people were dominated by other. Its true that discrimination existed.
    But, they all happened not as we study in the text books, or we read from the newspapers.. Inspite of all these drawbacks, there were always harmonious relationships between all the castes.. But, you people dont want to look beyond the established dogmas…

    First come out of that slavery mentality, where we repeat what the western people told about us.. Lets’ go and find ourselves the reality in our society.

  3. 3 psenthilraja September 24, 2007 at 4:52 pm

    By the way, Dharampal just says, many of the OBC’s were the ruling classes.. Its up to you to find out the facts from his findings, or just close your eyes, and believe in your own false blind things.

    I am ready to accept facts, that you may find, and discuss those. But, mindless rejection is not a healthy one.

  4. 4 C.Swamy September 25, 2007 at 6:41 pm

    First of all, I feel sorry for the instant comments I made . But the facts remain same. I understand that all fundamentalists voice the same way as you have, on the subject. The upper caste can never understand that the caste system has created hell for those hapless sudras for centuries, generations after generations. This kind of injustice does not exist anywhere in the world. No mother or father on earth wishes that their offspring suffer the same plight he or she has suffered. Suffering of what kind? dehumanized living for a life time. In Jallianwallah Baagh massacre, people got killed once. But, an untouchable or a low caste man in India get killed everyday and wake up next day for another onslaught. It is a life of death, Is there a life existing without self respect anywhere else other than in India. I know you will quote many Government Orders and Constitutional rights. That is how untouchablity does not exist today officially. But what is the reality?. Do you know, every day 2 dalits are killed and 6 dalit women are raped in the country for violation of caste rules.

    In Mayawati’s State, very recently a man was killed by two Brahmin youths just because he got an Engineering seat. Still there are honor killings in this country (report enclosed). This is the height of intolerance. Are we living 21st century. The media being obsessed with Cinema and Cricket does not show these violations of human rights in the villages. The caste-based hatred killings have outnumbered the Jallianwala bagh killings long ago.

    Think for a while, had there been an Indian empire in place of British Empire, would there not have been huge slums with untouchables every where, filth, illiteracy lit large. Brahmins chanting mantras effortlessly enjoying Godhood! In spite of all crusades and holocausts, there were people who did community work. Can you blame Hinduism for the heinous crime committed by one Darasing representing a fundamentalist outfit? Do not forget that the present day Hindu Stalwarts have taken their basic education in convents. (I do not want to name them). And our maths have copied their philanthropy work. Caste System afflicts more insults and injuries than racial discrimination.

    Even today the low caste Sudras however educated cannot be equated with elite Brahmins. They are deep down immersed in Superstition. One can see the Queue running for miles in Thirupathi. Credulous millions dying to take a bath in dirty waters in Kumbha melas in the name of Bhakthi. Do you call this a civilization?

    If you term the meek submission of people out of ignorance as harmonious co-existence, there can be no better cheating Sir. I have no further argument.

    Honour killing
    [ 16 Nov, 2006 0051hrs IST TIMES NEWS NETWORK ]

    RSS Feeds | SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates

    NEW DELHI: In what appears to be a shocking case of honour killing, a 26-year-old Dalit youth was shot dead in New Usmanpur in northeast Delhi.

    The murder was allegedly committed by the family of a Jat girl whom he married two years ago.

    The girl’s family is reportedly on the run and no arrests have been made so far.The victim, Kishan Kumar, was returning from a hearing at Karkardooma courts — where his divorce case was being taken up — when he was fired at from point blank range by two unidentified men.

    The incident occurred around 2 pm on Tuesday. The deceased was accompanied by his cousin Sajjan Kumar, who was riding pillion on Kishan’s motorcycle.

    His mother, Krishna Devi, alleged, “My son was killed by the family of Lakshmi Tomar, who he eloped with in March 2004. They were against the wedding from the start. In fact, Lakshmi and Kishan lived together only for about five-six days after which her brothers took her away.”

  5. 5 psenthilraja September 25, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Again, i request you to come with facts. Can you provide the source for the UP incidents?

    What you have described is what I have read from my subject books for long. For your info, I am a shudra, who does agriculture. That doesnt mean, no one forced me to do agriculture..

    I dont know where & how you live now.. Probably, in a city with comfortable AC…

    If i am right, then without any real life exposure, you had conveniently made the statement that “This kind of injustice does not exist anywhere in the world”..

    I dont want to enforce any of my views on you.. But, if at all, you want to understand the truth, you have to leave the pre-defined dogma atleast for some time..

    And i have quoted you the source of Dharampal’s book.. It was not his own writing.. But, a compilation he made from the British Archival..

  6. 6 psenthilraja September 25, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    Regarding Tirupathi.. What authority do you have to term those as superstitions? This is a heavy infringe on other’s beliefs.. Can you make the similar statement on healing program of christians or the stone throwing ceremoney of the muslims?

    Regarding dara sing, it was reported in the same paper vey later that he does not belong to any outfits, and he killed the priests out of personal rivalry…

    Ok.. even if you are referring those, what would you say for crores of indians killed in the hands of muslims, that continues till now? Do you have the guts to atleast point these atrocities to them? There are so much of the proofs from the very muslim historians glorifying these atrocities in the name of islam.

    I would like to call a spade a spade..

  7. 7 psenthilraja September 25, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    Before throwing spit on brahmins, first realise that the duty of a brahmin’s life.. And without ever knowing how our society was just 300 years before, you are throwing so much of dirts on our society.

    And its more surprising, that jallianwala bagh, extinction of a whole american, african & australian race.. Persecution of jews.. if all these doesnt appear big to you, then there is really some serious introspection on your part..

    Caste system had co-existed for thousands of years. Its plain logic, that it would not have been possible, with all the atrocities you have mentioned..

    In Hindu Dharma, caste system was an arrangement of social duties.. Not for suppression or insulting anyone…

    Dont throw imaginary arguments oversensitising the issues..

    And its a history that most of the OBC’s, MBC’s and BC’s were responsible for the so called untouchability, and not the brahmins..

    But, again you could simply accuse only brahmins, because, you have lost the inherent power to think for yourself.

  8. 8 psenthilraja September 25, 2007 at 8:37 pm

    It really shows your slavery mentality, when you said, the only britishers provided education to the shudras..

    The fact is that numerous slums were created only after the advent of Britishers, and before that, almost everyone has prospered well. Before britishers, there were no beggars in any part of india, which was well accepted by the britishers themselves.

    Its highly contradicting to forget that till now there is no remedy or any upliftment done to the Red Indians in America or the argentina. The former slaves of america are now again living in more poorer conditions, as all resources & opportunities are cornered by white americans..

    Ofcourse, none of their newspaper or their citizen denigrate themselves for any of their atrocities. Because, they were self confident and have their own dignity.

    But, its we indians who believe, that slavery is better than caste system or the massacre of the thousands of people are better than caste system..

    And well.. Indians can even state that the Goa Inquisitions should be forget, because the christians provided some begging alms..

  9. 9 C.Swamy September 26, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Mr.Raja,

    I hope you are intelligent enough to make out my origin from the contents of my letter.If you are a sudra and still appreciate caste system it is obvious in whose mind the slavery is entrenched. We are in a society of inequality. Caste system is vertical division of high and low which is being laughed at in the outside world. A nation without equal opportunity can not shine better. No religion can stand and sustain on the footing of inequality. A senior journalist friend of mine was mourning always saying that why India has not even invented a bulb. We were drowned in darkness before others came and alerted. Why talk of loot by British. Our own brethren used our labour for centuries denying the right to property in the name of karma.

    We are hypocrites, we do no accept facts. No less a person like Vivekananda chided this society for being uncivilized obsessed with castes. What I have said are all facts and not concoctions. I can give you hundreds of examples. I know you will loose patience. If some scs abstain from another sc temple as you say, it is not their fault. There are different Gods for different castes in this country. I advise you to read Lohia and Ambedkar. Finally with today’s quota of incidence as below I will end my argument.

    Youths clash in police station
    25 Sep 2007, 0224 hrs IST , TNN

    Print Save EMail Write to Editor

    JALANDHAR: With clashes, that shook Haryana’s Gohana district after Dalit youth Rakesh was allegedly killed by Jat youth after being acquitted in the murder of a Jat youth, still fresh in mind, 12 persons were booked on Sunday for attempt to murder after a violent clash between the two communities in Punjab’s Jamsher village. Five were reportedly injured, including four from the Jat community.

    According to the police, Sukha of Jamsher village and Deepa of Bhode Sarpai village were at logger heads and following a dispute, they were called to Jamsher police chowki for a compromise, where they again had an altercation.

    “When Dalit sarpanch Bujha Ram’s driver was driving back the Dalit community to the village to avoid further tension, the other group attacked the vehicle near the police post gate and they clashed within chowki premises,” said a police official.

    The youths reportedly attacked each other with swords and other sharp-edged weapons. Chowki in-charge Om Parkash was transferred for failing to control the situation

    Thank you for providing me an opportunity to converse with you.

  10. 10 C.Swamy September 27, 2007 at 1:48 pm

    Some more additions

    Caste System is not the thing of the past. It is the reality of the present. The politics in India is just a number game with caste- wise population. That is the reason worthless people are occupying highest places excepting a few. We see Ministers and Officers patronizing their own caste taking recourse to illegal means. Now a days even religious maths are developed on caste lines. They encourage corruption to feed maths. When religion is divided on caste lines, selfish people loot each other. Caste system therefore has not only affected social life but also the politics, economy and what not. University professions are not exception. I am not saying that there are no worthy people in India. There are, there is talent, but most of them migrate and enrich America, having benefited from their motherland.

    Thirupati is a cesspool of corruption. A moneyed man can get easy access to God and poor one has to struggle in the queue. It is not God’s wish. If god is in favour of rich, any person with some sense should desist from seeing him. And you know, you can get laddus in black market without going in the queue. Ah! Hail our spirituality.

    The only worthiest thing that India contributed to the world is Buddha, the light. Please read his discourses, you will be enlightened.

    These fundamentalists cover-up dark history by accusing British for everything, creating bundles of lies. Again they are exploiting the sentiments of unscrupulous mass by invoking Ramanama.

  11. 11 psenthilraja September 27, 2007 at 6:25 pm

    Rampant accusations that emerge from the creativity of yours.. When you have so much hatredness, you cant find the real truth.. I am not a slave for i am able to analyse the reality of our system. I am not repeating the words of the imperialist conquerer, which you are doing the same…

    Ok.. let us argue by facts.. the news that you quoted has nothing to do with castes. They are far better than the brutal massacres of the communists, only for the reason that others did not heed them..

    Ofcourse, for a slaves like you, these doesnt matter.. what you want is that you want others to believe the very lies, that you believe..

    Refer the books written by Dharampal from the site http://www.dharampal.net .. ofcourse, you may not like him, because, what he writes is against what you believe. probably, you will like only if some one having white skin says something about us…

    If possible, read that book, and then you will realise..

    Before the britishers came, there was no concept of individual property. Everything belonged to the village temples. And there is an annadhana, for all.

    As far as Brahmins are considered, they were living a very simplistic life, with much discipline and life codes. Their duty is to control their desires, and expertise in reciting vedas, and to acquire other scientific knowledge. They did not own any propriety. THey never ruled any part of the country, except for few minor historic events.

    We all know, that before britishers came, shivaji was the ruler. and we know shivaji was a shudra, elevated to a king. All other kings like Raja Raja cholan, pulikesi, krishnadeva rayar, bukka rao, and many rajputs are not associated with the brahmins.

    Caste isolation was common for all.. As i quoted in this article, it was even followed by the lowermost castes.

    There was no concept of higher and lower castes… surprisingly, many of the BC’s and OBC’s like Thevars, Nayakkars, Vanniyars were the rulers before the britishers. The britishers, suppressed them mercilessly and reduced them to the most poor condition, only because, these castes will be a dangerous threat to their nation.

    And its a wide known history, that kohinoor diamonds are invaluable, available only in india. And India was so invaded so many times, only because of its wealth.

    India had an excellent education and scientific knowledge, that the western scholars copied and some times stole a lot.

    For eg, when the britishers took a survey, there were around 1-lakh village schools in Bengal province alone. An equal number of schools in Madras Presidency.

    There were schools in each and every village in india, before the britishers came.
    Surprisingly, even till 17th century, the education was confined only to the few nobles in England, and after learning from our people, they slowly implemented to common people, but that too, only for propogating christianity. Again, i wonder, if you would ever think, why education was not available to the ordinary people in england at those times.

    History shows, how the people would behave when they were intolerant. The 1400 years fight b/w shias and sunnis are the best example. The muslims in kashmir, could not even tolerate the presence of Hindus and driven them away.

    But, no such things happened in caste system. The different castes existed as strong unit, with some level of isolation. no one caste has any dogma over other. Certain castes were the rulers before britishers, and other casets performed different functions in society. But, all were given a considerable level of independance, in following their own culture.

    But, in order to understand all these, we have to first come out of the pre-defined dogma, which was propagated only by the westerners.

  12. 12 psenthilraja September 27, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    ****A senior journalist friend of mine was mourning always saying that why India has not even invented a bulb.****

    There are lot of stories, on how much of indian inventions were either suppressed or stolen. It was now widely accepted that Radio was not invented by marconi, but by jagadish chandra bose. As per the sources, when JC bose, went to Europe for demonstrating his equipment, all his materials were stolen.. and later, some months, another person called marconi emerged and claimed he found the radio.

    Similarly, whenever any indian scientist found anything new, it will not be immediately recognized. Rather, the eurpean will wait for some one from their people come with similar theory, and then atlast declare that both founded the same.

    Many of the Ramnuja’s works were still a wonder for the westerners.

    but, we all are not ready to look in to these. Rather, we dont find the gross injustice, a serious one.. more worse we dont even accept their utter racism, and racist superiority mentality of the westerners, the only reason for them not able to accept anything creative from the indian side.

    Just see many of the magnificient temples of india. They are not the signs of a backward india.. rather, a product of advanced society…

    You cannot judge history by the present situation.. the equality, liberty, and all other fantasy qualities are not even followed by the westerners. They were existing only for the White Christians… How much does the US did for their former African slaves?

    or How much did the US did for their Red Indians, who were the original inhabitants of the americas.

    The reason, the americans have the dignity, and their media is in their hands.
    While the indians remained slaves, and our media were in the hands of westerners now.

    Whatever news that you quote, its only reported by a media, that’s under the control of western nations. And their western masters have not yet abandoned the racist mentality till now.. that’s why so much conspiracy, and oppostion that came during Arcelor Mittal, or the corus undertakings by indian companies.

    Today, caste system is a reality. There is nothing wrong with each one following their caste. But, all problems of caste was created and induced by the politicians, and western christian missionaries.

  13. 13 C.Swamy September 28, 2007 at 2:56 pm

    Great God, you can’t believe the harsh reality appearing in the news papers. You still want castes to remain. You will not speak about the inequality as a matter of rule or equal opportunity that was not existed in India. There is no point in arguing. I can definitely say that you are not a shudra. I wonder even a progressive Brahmin of today won’t think like you. Pl remember our own Vedas were buried before Max Muller came. Those industrious people came in search of something and excavated many valuable creations of our ancient wisdom and given it to our hands. They wrote grammar books , dictionaries to many Indian languages. This is not a loot. You have completely wrong idea about temples. The sexual depictions on the walls of temples speak a lot about them. That is the birth place of devadasi system. Why Gazani invaded Somanath temple many times provides ample proof for the wealth it had. Why priests had control over the temples if they were only to recite Vedas because there were women and wealth. I am not blaming today’s Brahmins for all these but Brahminism is responsible for barbarism that India displays. It seems sanghparivar has injected lot of venom into your veins. At least read Periyar you will know the truth that you repeat every time.

  14. 14 psenthilraja September 28, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    ha ha.. who has the venom?? Its you who is having so much of venom in you.. I belong to vellalar group.. partly shudra, and partly shatriya.. I dont care whether you believe or not.

    But, you havent cared to look in to any of the points i made above. The very fact that only the britishers wrote grammars for our language, reflects the immense ignorance, and slavery in you.. because, its a well established fact, that most of indian languages got matured more than 2000 years.

    And you dont substantiate your accusations… because, if you have any of sense of fairness, you would atleast give a second thought to any thing..

    As for equality, it never existed in any part of the world. Then why accuse only india.. Even in this modernised world, there is no equality, followed by western masters of the slaves like you.. the developed countried intimidating the thirdworld countries, and developing countries.. but still you speak about equality..

    I am again reminding you of Goa Inquisition by the christians, where they pierced their swords in to the private parts of hindu women, tortured the hindu males in nude in front of their wives, unleashed all forms of cruelty, looted and raped almost all families that were not part of christian faith…

    If you dont find anything big in the above, i would boldly proclaim, that caste system is 1000 times better than those cruel happenings of the history.

    I am having my own dignity, and i am a person to think on my own. I have spent considerable amount of time, and exposing all these truths.

    And i have given substantial proof also.. http://www.dharampal.net

    But, still you want to coverup numerous loots of ghazni, and ridicule our own people.. Because the temples were full of jewels, doesnt make the ghazni’s brutalities right.. The riches in somnath temples were all contributed by the people, and not looted any where..

    Sex is an inseparable part of Hindu culture, and Hinduism has dealth in a right & spiritual way… Sex is acknowledged with due responsibilities, .. its only the westerners, who brought the notion that sex is wrong/unethical, because of fundamental christians.. and its they who made sex so cheap and vulgar as its happening now..

    Devadasis are not prostitutes.. their primary duty is to maintain the temple, and promote arts and dances. Bharatanatyam and other Indian arts and music were all developed and perfected by the devadasis.. The level of mastery, and the level of technical and artistic content in these arts, are not the ones that could have been developed by a prostitutes.
    Since devadasis were out of the family structure, they were free to choose a partner of their own. This is permitted in accordance with ethics, and because sex is a natural feeling for every being that should not be suppressed. But the primary duty of the devadasis were to perform arts in the temples for the common people.
    But with the collapse of Indian polity with the barbaric invasion of muslims, the devadasis lost patronage, and they were virtually reduced to prostitution.
    And now, people like you, instead of realising the history, use it for condemning our society.

    I know any amount of explanation cannot convince you.. but, let my words get recorded in this blog.

  15. 15 C.Swamy September 29, 2007 at 11:26 am

    Our own people replicated Goa inquisitions in Gujarath! Is not it? I too feel the same way as you do. The facts are got recorded in the blog.

    Here is a report appeared in the Hindu.

    the appalling practice of untouchability seems to only assume new and less obvious forms after it is exposed and causes public outrage. The situation in Kadkol village of Basavanabagewadi taluk in Bijapur district, where 80 Dalit families were imposed social and economic boycott by caste Hindus on July 25, 2006 for daring to draw water from a tank till then reserved for caste Hindus, is a case in point.

    As we fight Untouchability we have not seen it disappear but change form. As American Jim Crow laws, when made illegal, transformed into systematic racism by those in authority (ie derogatory hiring practices, frequent bank loan rejections, etc), so, too, will Untouchability transform from an active persecution of violence and bloodshed to a passive discrimination that will be much more difficult to destroy.
    “What is even more shocking is that one year and two months after the incident was reported, the authorities are yet to book anyone for practising untouchability and imposing boycott. “The police say it has to be handled by the Civil Rights Enforcement Cell. The cell says that it does not have adequate staff to conduct an inquiry and the police should do it,” says Mr. Ramanna. “As a result, those responsible for the act, including a member of the taluk panchayat and president of Gram Panchayat, are walking free,” he said.

    This is the hidden casteism, the hidden untouchability: it is not that the Dalits were boycotted, though that is deplorable, but that the system makes it impossible to find redress for the victims. This is the future of Indian Untouchability

  16. 16 psenthilraja September 30, 2007 at 9:38 pm

    As i said earlier, The Hindu newspaper had become an anti-hindu, sensationalising issues, arousing communal passions again Hinduism.. Its a known secret that N.Ram, the editor of The Hindu is a pakka communist.. We cant expect anything from him other than these news..

    The news you give is solely based on the newsreport, which i can dispute its form of reporting and authenticity of the original incidents.

    But, i will give numerous incidents, along with photos, the crime committed on Hindus.. Just a few examples..

    1. Two daughters and mother of a Nepali Hindu, got raped by a muslim influential person, in westbengal.. do you want the name of the person who raped them, the village, location, contact details? I am ready to provide, to your contact detail.. (i cannot make it public for some obvious reasons..)

    2. The burning of a 14 year old Hindu boy again in West Bengal by the Bangladeshi muslims.. Do you want the photo of that boy? Do you want the name of the accused? do you want the FIR no, filed on the nine accused? Do you want the name of the village.. I have all those details with the photos..

    I again doubt, whether you would raise your voice against those atrocities…

    I am against discrimination, untouchability, and any other inhuman things.. I am there with you when you fight against any of such incidents at any place.. But do you have the williingness and daring to fight against the evils i mentioned above..

    Definitely, rape and burning of a boy are more heinous crimes than caste discrimination..

    There are lot of positives in caste system, that we fail to notice by the hyped up sensationalisation of this dalit issues.. its a known fact, that a numerous Chettiar families had done a lot of charities to the people (irrespective of the caste. including dalits).. and there is no word called dalit, before britishers.. its a word coined by them, to collapse our society, for which peopel like you are supporting their malicious cause…

  17. 17 psenthilraja September 30, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    Just by citing Godhra riots, you cant justify Goa Inquisition.. THere is fundamental difference… Goa Inquisition are done by dutch christians because of their racial superiority, and that they had so much hatred on Hindu religion, which they considered as inferior pagans.. Goa inquisition was done on peaceful people following sanadhana dharma, out of hatredness, and entirely by dutch christians..

    Whereas godhra riots were caused by burning of 66 kar sevaks in the train.. While i dont justify the godhra riots, i question your fairness in blacking out the train carnate that ignited the riots..

    In the same line, are you ready to quote sikh riots done by a party which spoke of gandhian values?

  18. 18 C.Swamy October 1, 2007 at 11:06 am

    My concern is that, our own people do not use the well used by the other fellow human beings (they not being different race). Killings taking place for entering temple by some section of people etc., such incidents are reported in every news paper. The discrimination in India is day-to-day affair. No amount of argument will substantiate the caste system. How chettiyars got the wealth is obvious, the sudras were denied right to property. It is not proper to blame the other without looking into ourselves. Caste system is considered to be worst form of any social system in the world. If there was a slightest positive thing about caste system the Govt, would have harped on it majority rulers being themselves. Why officially it is condemned because it does not hold people together. Being a Dravidian you do not imbibe self respect propagated by Nambiyar, Periyar or Anna. You are enjoying easily earned superiority. It is our lot to keep fighting people like you. Thanks a lot. I am closing your blog.

  19. 19 senthilraja October 7, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    Again you are repeating the words of your slave masters..

    Caste system is a social setup to perform various duties of the society. There was no concept of proprietaryship before britishers came. The whole land was alloted to the village temple, and there were only administrators, vellalars, traders, labourers, who all received the benefits of these public proprietaries.

    There were few evils happened in some places. But, most of them are due to the administrative collapse, and absense of any king who could enforce the dharma.

    The chettiyars amazed wealth only because of their trading skills.. They were the trading communities for thousands of years.

    However, you could not undermine their numerous charity works, all over india. Most of the temples constructed were funded by chettiyars.

    You speak so much about labourers,.. go and see the present condition of labourers..

    Not owning property is not a big issue here.. because, in india, those labourers had their own level of societal freedom.. These are all the conditions that existed before the britishers.

    Again you fail to understand the point that the numerous castes co-existed peacefully, while even a two sects of islam worshipping the same god, is killing with each other for 1400 years.

    Its not proper to blame even ourselves, because others blamed us unfairtly.. you cannot do selective blaming, having separate views for others and for us..

    There is no society that is completely without evils.. every society had its own problems.. Except ours, no other societies blame themselves or denigrate themselves, because, they had their self dignity..

    Why i pointed out the atrocities of others is that , we are 1000 times better and more broad minded than those colonial masters, and need not blame ourselves..

    All your thoughts and arguments are completely false, and you are doing a false blame propoganda.. you are blowing up isoloated events, without understanding the basic problems..

    I again remind you, that even the so called dalits follow caste system, just like other castes.. There is no point in blaming only particular section..

    The need of the hour is the awareness and maturity in all castes.

  20. 20 Venkatesh February 17, 2008 at 3:18 am

    Dear Shri Senthilraja,
    Thank you for providing the URL on Shri.Dharampal. Personally I’m not interested in ‘Blogging’ but rather prefer in-person or email/letter communication. I was wondering if you have your own homepage.If you want you can email me.

    Nandree

  21. 21 uh? September 17, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    ok. after looking through your blog, i came to know your a castist!.
    would not bother you again…leave your castist life.

    have to find TRUE HINDUS…..

  22. 22 right October 9, 2008 at 6:29 pm

    Dear Uh,

    I agree with you there. This is purely a caste and hate-generator blog. It is time Senthil shows some real love for all God’s people by writing what would unite people rather than divide.

  23. 23 senthil October 11, 2008 at 4:35 pm

    Uh and Right..

    Who is generating hate.. is me or you.. i just opined about some alternate views of caste system.. but its you who is abusing me throwing baseless allegations..

    First understand the existing system.. you cannot love for all gods people without understanding who is hating them..

    Its definitely not the caste system or me..

  24. 24 Ajay November 20, 2008 at 4:36 pm

    Dear Senthil,

    Its nice to read posts about Dharampal’s findings. Suprisngly most Indians have no appetite for truth and would rather continue to stick to their dogmas that they picked up from school text books and newspapers.

    If more people and more people understand India’s true histroy, i’m sure India can only change for the better.

  25. 25 Sairam November 24, 2008 at 11:25 pm

    Wow, that was a good argument between you two… What I was shocked at is the amount of slavery that has still engukfed the minds of Indians (especially the ‘rational’ Tamilians)… Some people cannot digest facts even if corroborated with evidence.. C Swamy is definitely one among them. Thanks to the Macaulayan education system that some are still Indians in colour but an Englishman in taste, opinions and morals…. Three cheers to Macaulay, ‘Rational’ Periyar and his diciple C swamy…..

  26. 26 peterparker February 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm

    Dear Senthil,

    Good Post..nice work..though i dont know why this C Swamy is getting so much irritated. Wonder he belongs to that group of brown sahibs who hails JI HUZOOR to whites..

    the ridiculuous thing which he said in this blog is that the natives of india buried the vedas and the industrious people like max muller etc excavated them,read them and told us about the wonder contained in them…very funny…

    As long as people like C Swamy will continue to exist…india will always remain slave…

  27. 27 ashok March 11, 2009 at 12:21 am

    From this i can very cleary understand that the caste system is created by the brahmins only and imposed in the other communities.

    Thanks the auther for explaining in detail.
    NB: Bramins are afraid of the changes and if it happens it will be a major challenge for them.

  28. 28 Incognito April 25, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    Senthil,

    Excellent post and very good comments.

    It is amazing, the deliberate intent of certain people to subvert truth as seen in the comments by C swamy, ashok etc.

    You have countered them very well.

  29. 29 Ramesh May 13, 2009 at 11:42 pm

    For decades, hate-driven individuals and groups (masquerading as social justice activists) have found the centuries-old “manusmriti” a veritable treasure house to abuse a section of the Hindus, Hinduism and the nation itself and to secure supremacist rights privileges, burying the anti-discriminatory Article 15(1) of the constitution in the process. But in selectively quoting from the “manusmriti” even a commonsense approach is not adopted. One wonders whether there exists any grey matter in their heads.

    Of the many English-translated prescriptions of “manusmriti” found on their websites, let us consider only one –

    “…If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot).”

    To begin with let us consider the very instrument “an iron pin, ten inches long” that is to be thrust into the mouths of the supposed “low born”. The word “pin” has several meanings. Did “manu” mean a “a rolling pin” with which we roll chapathis or did he mean the pin that is commonly used to attach sheets of paper? That is not clear. Since the people responsible for “thrusting” the pin were not clear either, probably that is why, we have never heard of a “pin” having been thrust into the mouths of an alleged low-born!

    Now, let us suppose that the “pin” in question is the one with which we attach sheets of paper. Was such a pin available in the market, centuries ago? Is such a pin available in the market today? Has anyone thus far seen such a “pin”? We indeed have seen iron pins one to two inches long, but ten inches? Surely it would have to be specifically manufactured!!! Since such a pin has not been available, probably that is why, we have never heard of a “pin” having been thrust into the mouths of an alleged low born!

    Another reason why there is no recorded case of a “pin” having been thrust into the mouth of supposed “low born” is that “Manu” forgot to specify the pin’s “thickness”! Since, the thickness was not known, naturally, the gentlemen incharge of “thrusting” did not know which pin to thrust and probably that is why there is no evidence of any pin (that too ten inches long) having been thrust into the mouths of …men!!! Maybe if “manu” were to be reborn, one could get to know the thickness!!

    Now let us consider the quotation itself “…If a (low-born man) mentions the name or caste of a superior revilingly, an iron pin, ten inches long, shall be thrust into his mouth (red hot).”

    The “red hot” portion is added as an afterthought, that too in brackets! Probably, “manu” wrote it that way!

    The quotation actually conveys the impression that “an iron pin, ten inches long” should be thrust when the mouth is “red hot”!!! Did “manu” mean pre-heating to make the mouth “red hot”? Probably, his disciples did not understand the concept of “pre-heating” and that is why a ten-inch pin of indeterminate thickness was never thrust into the mouths of any men!

    Now let us come to the issue of who are the “low born”. There is no definition of who are the low-born or the high-born. But there are some clues available. Traditionally, the scriptures have been used to launch hate campaigns against the Hindus, who may be Brahmins, Banias etc. One should therefore conclude that they are not the alleged “low born”. Needless, to say, neither the Brahmins nor the Banias are proclaiming themselves to be either “low born” or “high born”.

    Now let us consider the issue of an alleged “low born” mentioning the name or caste of a superior “revilingly,”.

    The hate-brahmin movement started nearly a century ago in different parts of the country and is growing ferociously with each passing day. There are thousands of web-sites that glowingly eulogise such anti-social genocidal movements. The media and various other so-called “progressive” elements instead of condemning and feeling ashamed of such irrational hate- campaigns, approvingly refer to such movements as “anti-caste” movements.

    During the past one hundred years all kinds of illegal, anti-constitutional and derogatory ‘labels’ have been invented and pasted on the hapless victims of the so-called anti-caste movements, some of which are “upper caste”, “forward caste”, “oppressors”, “schemers”, “wily”, “Brahmin dog” etc. (Considering the above, the word “reviling” is surely a mild word!)

    Such sustained campaigns and the supremacist rights secured from such campaigns has (a) denied lakhs of innocent citizens of their right to education and livelihood; (b) driven them out from their homes and the nation resulting in the loss of their citizenship; and (c) caused demographic changes, like the one witnessed in Kashmir.

    And who has carried out such “reviling” and “revolting” campaigns? It is best left unsaid…Needless to say, the concept of “low born” is a self-proclaimed one.

    Yet the vicious campaign with the connivance of the media and the power-wielders continues.


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